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Red Dawn’s New Day [an interview with John Milius, the author and director]
New York Press ^ | December 28, 2003 | Johnny Dwyer

Posted on 12/28/2003 3:33:30 PM PST by aculeus

It was never a question of whether John Milius’ Red Dawn would become a reference point in the war on terror; it was only a question of when and how. In the 1984 film, Patrick Swayze, Jennifer Grey and C. Thomas Howell grind down a Soviet invasion with pilfered AK-47s and RPGs. When the raid that captured Saddam Hussein was coined Operation Red Dawn, the film found its place in history. The movie was immediately recalled by the press as "Cold War propaganda" and "jingoistic." But the central theme of the story–the bitterness of dying to protect one’s country–was overlooked, as was the uncomfortable analogy to the war against insurgents in Iraq.

John Milius, the film’s writer and director, who also co-wrote Apocalypse Now and Conan the Barbarian, discusses making Red Dawn, an American mujahideen and Bush’s preemptive world.

I was surprised to wake up Sunday morning to see Red Dawn on tv. Can you tell me what you thought when you heard this?

I was very proud, you know. I was just thrilled. It’s nice to be liked someplace in the world. I have very strong supporters in the military.

It seems the film itself, while it was a Cold War-era film, has a broader message. What message do you think people latched onto?

[I]t was almost like a Revolutionary War message. It’s the nature of America’s struggle against oppression. But the movie, because it was a rare patriotic movie in a time when that really wasn’t done very often, I think it really struck a chord. It really struck a chord with people who’ve grown up [with it]… They’ve told me, "God, I just love that movie." Because everybody, I think, had that fantasy of what would happen if your home was invaded and you would fight the Russians and whatever.

I came of age watching the film, and it allowed us to indulge that fantasy in a very real way.

When I was a kid in the early 60s and 50s, even, actually I went to high school in Colorado. One of the big things we wanted to be, aside from football players and skiers and everything else–we wanted to be mountain men. And so we read everything about Jim Pritchard and Jim Carson, all that kind of thing, you know, to be a woodsman. The greatest fantasy of all was that we were going to go up to the mountains and resist the Russians with flint-lock rifles, cap-lock rifles, anyway.

One of the great scenes in that movie is when the kids go into the store and get to take everything. (Laughs) You take your sleeping bags and all the neat knives and thermoses and, of course, they take the football.

I revisited the film after Sept. 11 because we had been attacked and, in a sense, we were at war. The one scene that really stuck out was when the Wolverines execute the Russian soldier and the mayor’s son, Daryl. The rationale that Jed [Patrick Swayze’s character] gives is, "We live here." For me that sort of summed up the anger and fear that followed Sept. 11.

That’s the emotional core of it, isn’t it though? That’s it. We live here. This is what we are. At the time I remember that was a very, very powerful scene... [I]t was extremely [difficult] to shoot that. We were way, way up on a place called Johnson’s Mesa. It snowed. The wind was blowing in. It dropped below zero, everybody was getting frostbite, as well as the fact, I remember, everyone had dysentery. So you had the problem of everyone having to rush to various facilities wearing Avirex assault gear. It’s funny how those are the things you remember.

I remember the power of that scene and that they got into it because of the fact that it was so bitterly cold. And yet it was so beautiful at the same time. Everybody became kind of strongly attached to the place. There are a lot of different scenes people think of as the most powerful moments.

I always remember–one of the things I love is when they talk about the "Seige of Denver." (Laughs) It’s like people are eating each other like Leningrad. It was the whole idea of taking the Russian myth–which was true to them and extraordinarily powerful–of the Great Patriotic War and using it against them.

When I watched the film recently, it seemed like the Wolverines were sort of a mujahideen, at least in a strategic sense, the attacks on convoys–this is stuff we’re seeing now. Were you addressing the Soviets in Afghanistan?

Yeah. The movie was made because the Soviets were in Afghanistan. Actually, the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan the year before. Remember, we wouldn’t let them go to the Olympics or they withdrew from the Olympics, and that’s when the movie was made; that’s when the people at MGM decided we’re going to make this patriotic movie that’s mirroring the situation in Afghanistan, and we’ll release it during the Olympics.

And the movie was very successful. It was just roundly hated by the liberal community and critics. I was vilified and excoriated to a degree–and I was one who was used to being vilified and excoriated for my movies–but that movie really got their dander up.

I think the movie is a very complicated look at what war does to people. I don’t think any of the characters are resolved as to their role in the whole thing; it seems like a bunch of them want to be children rather than fighting.

Yeah, and you see the tremendous cost of everything. Nobody comes out of it whole or unscarred. The ones that in the end, when they get away, they’re looking down on this vast plain and say, "We’re free now." And he says, "Free to do what?"

In Iraq the tables have turned; the United States is in a situation where we’re occupying a country and we have to make ourselves open to the attacks that the Wolverines were perpetrating in Red Dawn.

I think that’s a whole other thing. We’re doing what we said we’re going to do. Bush was very clear after 9/11 about what he was going to do, and he hasn’t really deviated from that, even though people haven’t liked it or anything else. He’s been fairly resolute in saying, "You’re either for us or against us." And where we find people against us, we’re going to go get ’em and we’re not going to tolerate blowing apart our cities and killing tens of thousands of Americans. We’re not going to roll over.

It’s very interesting. Again, it’s one of these cases where, when people are not involved directly, they don’t seem to care. We have a more [divided] nation now than we did in Vietnam


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: johnmilius; reddawn
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Why Milius is not popular in Hollywood:

" ... we’re not going to tolerate blowing apart our cities and killing tens of thousands of Americans. We’re not going to roll over."

1 posted on 12/28/2003 3:33:31 PM PST by aculeus
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To: aculeus
I don't think John Milius has made a movie since. Making a pro-American movie is just going further than Hollyweird can tolerate.
2 posted on 12/28/2003 3:35:37 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Pan_Yan; Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Red Dawn ping
3 posted on 12/28/2003 3:40:18 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife (Submitting approval for the CAIR COROLLARY to GODWIN'S LAW.)
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To: aculeus
I was vilified and excoriated to a degree–and I was one who was used to being vilified and excoriated for my movies–but that movie really got their dander up

You can sure see that in the Amazon reviews.

Red Dawn is actually a solid film. It's got several emotionally powerful scenes, including the one where Swayze kills his boyhood friend...or Harry Dean Stanton talking to his sons through the wire at the re-education camp...or C Thomas Howell's progression from scared kid to stone-eyed killer. The politics may have changed, but the situation is timeless.

4 posted on 12/28/2003 3:42:30 PM PST by Snake65 (Osama Bin Decomposing)
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To: goldstategop
I was definitely a neat movie, also "Invasion USA"
5 posted on 12/28/2003 3:42:48 PM PST by cmsgop ( It comes out your bum,Like a bullet from a gun,.."Diarrhea, Diarrhea"...........)
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To: goldstategop

Red Dawn is a very good movie in my opinion. I loved it when I was a kid. It's a very patriotic film. You can get the DVD online for under $10 if anyone is interested in buying this. I know Wal-Mart's online store carries it for a little less than $10.
6 posted on 12/28/2003 3:43:43 PM PST by Conservative_Nationalist
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To: goldstategop
He's made a few. Among them, Flight of the Intruder. See:

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0587518/
7 posted on 12/28/2003 3:45:20 PM PST by hc87
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To: goldstategop
I don't think John Milius has made a movie since. Making a pro-American movie is just going further than Hollyweird can tolerate.

Will Smith seems to have survived "Independence Day"

8 posted on 12/28/2003 3:46:32 PM PST by StatesEnemy
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To: Snake65
The politics may have changed, but the situation is timeless

The politics hasn't changed either... Just a different incarnation.

9 posted on 12/28/2003 3:49:25 PM PST by StatesEnemy
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To: aculeus

Red Dawn kicked butt! Da*n Russkies!
10 posted on 12/28/2003 3:51:29 PM PST by Walkin Man
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To: Snake65
Not to pick nits, but I'm pretty sure that is was C. Thomas Howell who shot the childhood friend for leading the Russian commando attack on the Wolverines. Swayze was pointing the Colt SA at the traitor, the mayor's son, but couldn't pull the trigger. C.T.H. stepped up with the AK and hit him with a burst.

Can anyone confirm this?

11 posted on 12/28/2003 3:51:53 PM PST by Double Tap
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To: StatesEnemy
Please. "Jim Pritchard and Jim Carson"? Jim Bridger and Kit Carson.

I saw part of Red Dawn on TV and appreciated what it was about, but doubted the realism of untrained kids being able to fight successfully against trained soldiers. The Sovs were tough and well-drilled troops.

That doesn't take anything away from American courage or ideals. Even at the battles of Lexington and Concord, the Redcoats ran down and slaughtered a large number of their ambushers. There were just too many of them, ultimately.

In the town square of Arlington, Mass., there's a monument to one of the Minutemen, who had been caught, bayonetted several times and shot more than once, but who survived to a ripe old age.

12 posted on 12/28/2003 3:53:39 PM PST by MoralSense
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To: Double Tap
Douple Tap, I think you are right. I believe Swayze shoots the Russian soldier but C. Thomas Howell shoots their childhood friend after Swayze can't make himself pull the trigger. I think that's how it happened anyway, it's been a long time since I seen this movie.
13 posted on 12/28/2003 3:56:09 PM PST by Conservative_Nationalist
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To: StatesEnemy

Red Dawn was a wonderful movie. John Milius is a great director and deserves our unwavering support.

It affected my childhood as well. Especially since my parents came from Hungary and Germany. My father remembers the Russian tanks rolling in and how they could choose to fight with pitchforks or run for the west.

I'm glad he ran, but I know he would have stayed and fought, given some arms.

Another testiment to gun control.
14 posted on 12/28/2003 3:56:53 PM PST by Erik Latranyi
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To: Double Tap
C.T.H. stepped up with the AK and hit him with a burst.

I'm sure you're right, now that I'm thinking about it. I remember Swayze crying over the picture of them on the same little league team...

15 posted on 12/28/2003 3:56:53 PM PST by Snake65 (Osama Bin Decomposing)
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To: Conservative_Nationalist
That is what I remember.

Gives me a reason to watch it again.

16 posted on 12/28/2003 3:58:13 PM PST by Double Tap
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To: aculeus

WOLVERINES!!!!!!!

17 posted on 12/28/2003 4:06:50 PM PST by SAMWolf (This Christmas I got a battery with a note saying, "toy not included.")
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To: aculeus
I tihnk he was part of Dirty Harry as well...and Apocalypse Now.
18 posted on 12/28/2003 4:06:55 PM PST by Benrand
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To: Double Tap
You're right it was Howell.
19 posted on 12/28/2003 4:08:03 PM PST by SAMWolf (This Christmas I got a battery with a note saying, "toy not included.")
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To: MoralSense
I don't know how realistic it was but I don't think much of the Russian military. They seem to lose huge numbers of troops compared to there enemy in almost every conflict they are in. It doesn't seem they are all that well trained to me. Their soldiers seem to die in large numbers on a regular basis. Look how many they lost compared to the Germans in World War 2. The numbers they loss invading Finland was also more than they inflicted. In Chechnya they also have a less than ideal record. Their soldiers aren't much compared to most western Armies when it comes to individual soldiers survivability.

The kid's in Red Dawn were actually about the same age, or just a little younger, than many of the actual soldiers fighting in Iraq today. I agree it's not completely realistic but it's a good movie for kids in my opinion. It's a very patriotic movie that doesn't blame America for everything. I doubt you will see another movie like this come out of Hollywood without them making America out to be the ones who brought it on ourselves. Why haven't we seen a movie about 9/11 and the war on on terror? Because no one wants to make it unless they can put something negative about America in it and they know that won't sell at this time.
20 posted on 12/28/2003 4:08:28 PM PST by Conservative_Nationalist
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