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"Voting for solid conservatives, on the other hand - even if we have to go to a third party to do it - proves that there are people out there who aren't afraid to show their conservative colors, that what they believe is of paramount importance. This will help galvanize conservative media into carrying its message loudly and clearly into the public debate."

Um, the conservative media is not the problem. The conservative media has been producing TREMENDOUS amounts of articles concerning the unease many conservatives feel with spending, immigration, etc. It's hardly a secret in conservative circles. Are you seeing a lack of threads on FR where this is being discussed? I see tons of them, and they're not all vanity threads like this one - they're based on articles from conservative media complaining about the same things you are.

The -rest- of the media is the problem. The bulk of the apathetic public just accepts the liberal line given them on CBS/ABC/NBC/CNN, and the media has gotten away with it while Democrats were the dominant party. Should the Republicans sweep in 2004, even the liberal media won't be able to get away with utterly distorting the conservative message anymore, they simply won't be able to hold onto the ratings.

Bush is co-opting those specific Leftist issues that most attract the voting public. Democrats have nothing else to stand on. He is practically -eliminating- the party of treason, that wants to hand over sovereignty to the U.N., the World Court, Kyoto, etc. If you think it's hard to swing things back to conservatism -now-, just wait till Canadian and French citizens get a vote on our tax rates and social programs.

The collapse of the Dem party isn't just a nice-to-have, it's absolutely -vital- right now. If there isn't a clear and overwhelming mandate -against- them in 2004, things will get much worse very quickly, believe me.

By the way, I believe you said that the right message will be sent if you vote for the Constitution party. Well, the Canadian conservative party split in two over the exact same kind of reasons you cite here. Look how well that's paid off for them, and look at what message it sent. They've had a massive liberal majority for over a decade, despite a solid half of their population being conservative. DON'T TURN THE U.S. INTO CANADA!

When the Dem party has been marginalized, THEN it can become time to make a stink about where the Republicans have gone wrong (and -that- will be the time for a 3rd party to rise up closer to your values). But screwing around before then is dangerous as hell. If there was a psychotic axe-wielding maniac running around in your house, I don't think you'd hesitate to call your local police even if you did think there was some corruption going on in the department. Or would you?

Qwinn

Bush is co-opting those specific Leftist issues that most attract the voting public. Democrats have nothing else to stand on. He is practically -eliminating- the party of treason, that wants to hand over sovereignty to the U.N., the World Court, Kyoto, etc. If you think it's hard to swing things back to conservatism -now-, just wait till Canadian and French citizens get a vote on our tax rates and social programs.

That's where we're headed under Bush with the WTO and the FTAA. And (and here's the worst part) conservatives are cheering him for it!

By the way, I believe you said that the right message will be sent if you vote for the Constitution party. Well, the Canadian conservative party split in two over the exact same kind of reasons you cite here. Look how well that's paid off for them, and look at what message it sent. They've had a massive liberal majority for over a decade, despite a solid half of their population being conservative. DON'T TURN THE U.S. INTO CANADA!

Canada's form of government is drastically different from ours. There, as well as in other parliamentary democracies, party is everything. It's the party that controls all the institutions of the country, and when we're talking about socialist countries like theirs, that adds up to quite a bit. In addition, there's really only one branch of government: the House of Commons. I don't think there's much that could be done to help societies like theirs.

But here, government is still somewhat smaller and much better divided. In the unlikely event that the CP or LP would pick up enough votes to turn the election away from Bush, the Democrat would have no mandate whatever, and would be staring straight into a double-barreled Republican Congress who'd be utterly unintimidated by him. And the conservative media would be racking up audiences like never before.

If there was a psychotic axe-wielding maniac running around in your house, I don't think you'd hesitate to call your local police even if you did think there was some corruption going on in the department.

Just for the sake of accuracy in analogies, I'm gathering that the axe-murderer is threatening to kill 5 people in my house, whereas the local cops are promising to kill no more than 4?

Um, the conservative media is not the problem. The conservative media has been producing TREMENDOUS amounts of articles concerning the unease many conservatives feel with spending, immigration, etc. It's hardly a secret in conservative circles. Are you seeing a lack of threads on FR where this is being discussed? I see tons of them, and they're not all vanity threads like this one - they're based on articles from conservative media complaining about the same things you are.

The -rest- of the media is the problem. The bulk of the apathetic public just accepts the liberal line given them on CBS/ABC/NBC/CNN, and the media has gotten away with it while Democrats were the dominant party. Should the Republicans sweep in 2004, even the liberal media won't be able to get away with utterly distorting the conservative message anymore, they simply won't be able to hold onto the ratings.

Bush is co-opting those specific Leftist issues that most attract the voting public. Democrats have nothing else to stand on. He is practically -eliminating- the party of treason, that wants to hand over sovereignty to the U.N., the World Court, Kyoto, etc. If you think it's hard to swing things back to conservatism -now-, just wait till Canadian and French citizens get a vote on our tax rates and social programs.

The collapse of the Dem party isn't just a nice-to-have, it's absolutely -vital- right now. If there isn't a clear and overwhelming mandate -against- them in 2004, things will get much worse very quickly, believe me.

By the way, I believe you said that the right message will be sent if you vote for the Constitution party. Well, the Canadian conservative party split in two over the exact same kind of reasons you cite here. Look how well that's paid off for them, and look at what message it sent. They've had a massive liberal majority for over a decade, despite a solid half of their population being conservative. DON'T TURN THE U.S. INTO CANADA!

When the Dem party has been marginalized, THEN it can become time to make a stink about where the Republicans have gone wrong (and -that- will be the time for a 3rd party to rise up closer to your values). But screwing around before then is dangerous as hell. If there was a psychotic axe-wielding maniac running around in your house, I don't think you'd hesitate to call your local police even if you did think there was some corruption going on in the department. Or would you?

Qwinn

Excellent points all! And how true about Canada, an example we do not want to follow.

Only to come get the body. Get real, the Pubs want us disarmed and helpless as much as the Rats. Remember, it was a PUB who gave us CFR, USA-PATRIOT, et al. So he was just stealing the Rat's thunder, you say? WHY? Let the RATS sink or swim on their own merits. They have nothing worth stealing. No, that excuse won't wash. Bush is naught but a big spending liberal, like it or not. He threw one sop to conservatives that I can think of... ONE... the PBA "ban" which might get overturned in court the way a lot of you thought (hoped) (dreamt) CFR would. Please show some respect for others' intelligence. We can read and comprehend. We also have something worth far more than some party hack can fathom: PRINCIPLES AND VALUES. Bush appears to have none. He panders to the Left on virtually EVERY ISSUE. He has YET to see a bill pass Congress that he doesn't like, though there have been stinkeroos aplenty. Now, please tell us just what differentiates this man from some of the Rat candidates... except perhaps the RATE OF ACCELERATION toward the abyss. There is ZERO change in actual direction.