What will it take to convince you? Cost of Amnesty (posted earlier) This was for only 2.7 million. We are talking about at least ten million now.
It's reasonable to state that probably most of recently arrived illegal laborers are unskilled. It's also reasonable that most of them come here w/ the desire to learn skills and that many do become skilled labor, especially those who enter the construction trades.
Does this somehow negate all their legal transgressions? I don't care what they are here to do. They are illegal. They have shown utter contempt at our laws; why should this be rewarded?
What is impossible to quantify is the value added component because so much of it is part of the underground economy...
How can you assume that this is positive? Have you seen the lines at the Western Union terminals sending money back "home". Where is the benefit to American society?
What do you mean by dilution of our society?
I mean the need for bilingual forms, interpretors, et. al. When a teacher in school is forced to slow down classes to speak in two languages learning is retarded. I have no interest in hispanic culture. I am tired of having it forced on me.
At the same time, I think that all Americans should learn a second language because it just plain will make us more educated.
That should be by choice. Not to appease the illegals.
But the larger question is: Do we really want to stop it?
Unequivically - Yes!
You make a lot of sense in your position. However, I can't get past the lack of respect these people have shown and continue to show to the sovereignty of America and her people. I don't like the idea of these people skirting laws and benefiting from the generosity of America while at the same time spitting in her eye. It galls me.
And I said we should toss the bums, the professionally unemployed, back to their country of origin. I'm not amazed that the gov't spends more on illegal immigrants than the gov't says it collects from illegal immigrants. I stand by my statement: I don't accept as fact that illegal immigrants are a net drain on our society. As an illustration--One of the major arguments one hears is that illegal workers are willing to work for less than an American will accept in a comparable job. Who benefits? The American employer because he gets the same job done for less money & therefor he makes either a larger profit or does a larger volume of business and earns more money.
Does this somehow negate all their legal transgressions? I don't care what they are here to do. They are illegal. They have shown utter contempt at our laws; why should this be rewarded?
We disagree on the finer points of what each of us considers to be criminal behavior. This is a fundamental difference in opinion & we'll just have to agree to disagree.
How can you assume that this is positive? Have you seen the lines at the Western Union terminals sending money back "home". Where is the benefit to American society?
I don't know where my local Western Union is, so nope, I haven't seen that. I have seen them lined up at the local quik shop to buy milk, cigarettes & phone cards, clearly what are workers eating lunch in restaurants, I see their kids using cell phones, I see them buying gasoline & groceries & shopping at Shop-Ko, K-Mart & Wal-Mart. I've seen them arrive in waves at rummage sales, mine included, making multiple purchases & always paying in cash. And my neighborhood has a new Mexican food store & restaurant (owned by Hispanics) businesses that I patronize & businesses that pay rent, meet a payroll, purchase supplies & inventory, collect sales taxes... Take heart in that they're sending money back to relatives in Mexico instead of packing the entire clan north of the border.
I mean the need for bilingual forms, interpretors, et. al. When a teacher in school is forced to slow down classes to speak in two languages learning is retarded. I have no interest in hispanic culture. I am tired of having it forced on me.
We agree about language. I think it's incumbent upon them to learn to speak American English. Note that I said that Americans should learn to speak a second language. Didn't say it should be compulsory, nor did I say it had to be Spanish--although I think that learning Spanish would be the most prudent choice of a second language.
As to a previous mention about utter contempt for our laws, I suspect that this attitude could very well be a jaded view of laws & the entire legal systems in general. Consider their point of reference-----Given the total state of corruption of the Mexican legal system, is it any wonder?
And as to the lack of respect of American soverignty and people, again consider their point of reference--that is, as a people who were conquered by white Europeans. Some things are just what they are and will take a long, long time to change.
But I do understand where you're coming from & know your position well because I used to hold many of the same positions that you do. It was through discussions like this that my perspective began to change. Living as I now do in an area brimming w/ 1st & 2nd generations removed from Old Europe, I get a gut full of cultural diversity from time to time myself. :)