They gave me tangerines and muttered Hallelujah (Christianity in China)

The Times ^ | December 23, 2003 | Oliver August

[alnitak]

Fascinating. Christianity really seems to be taking root over there (thank God it's not Islam).

If you are having an open air meeting with 5000 people it's not really that "underground" any more.

[1stFreedom]

>>Fascinating. Christianity really seems to be taking root over there (thank God it's not Islam).

Well, I'd say protestantism, not Christianity. There is a BIG difference.

[MEG33]

Christian protestants rather than Christian Catholics?Was that what you meant to convey?

[alnitak]

Huh?

[1stFreedom]

That protestantism is *not* what is historically known as Christinaity.

Historic Christianity:
Belief in the Eucharist
Belife in the Sacraments
Belief in apostolic succession
Belief in the Catholic (Latin for universal) Church
Belief in the Holy Church
Belief in the One Church.

That is historic Christianity. Protestantism, for the most part, is a different religion. Same God, but different religion.

[MEG33]

I,a Protestant Christian,wish you a blessed Christmas.

[Pahuanui]

That protestantism is *not* what is historically known as Christinaity.

Yawn. Same old tripe.

Protestantism has historically been known as a branch of Christianity since the Reformation.

Any other dog-in-the-mangerisms you'd like to discuss?

[1stFreedom]

>>Protestantism has historically been known as a branch of Christianity since the Reformation

By whom? Protestants? People who don't know otherwise?

I'd like to write a post on this. I actually *could* go either way on this -- I think it will make an interesting post. I'll ping ya on it.

[MEG33]

I don't believe a post at Christmas on Protestants not being Christian would be in the spirit of Christ nor a good thing for Free Republic.

You,of course are free to believe as you wish,but think hard before you post on this subject.Political disagreements are different from those of religion.

[k2blader]

Interesting.

The Lord is moving in China, and the first thing you say is "It's not 'real Christianity'".

May I suggest you esteem faith more and "religion" less.

[Quix]

I have mixed feelings about him publishing this.

But I love hearing about that precious place and people.

Praise God for their prayers for us.

May we pray earnestly for them.

Blessings,

[Quix]

Now wait a minute.

I would not presume to call all Romans nonChristians.

The BIBLE says--IF

YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART . . . per:

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

GOD SAID IT.
I BELIEVE IT.
THAT SETTLES IT.

Of course, you can argue with God.

I wouldn't recommend it.

[Quix]

Could we leave the Roman/other rants to the religion forum?

Evangelicals are not that impressed that the Roman leader eons ago decided he was better than the others.

Then there's the whole issue of whether Peter was in Rome at all or not. The issue between a pebble and a stone.

Then there's the issue of Christ's blood siblings--Mary's other children.

I suspect this thread would be better off if we didn't go wandering off into endless iterations about such things.

But, hey--please have a blessed Christmas in God's Love by His Spirit.

[Quix]

AMEN!

Or, put slightly differently--esteem a RELATIONSHIP

WITH GOD and ALL WHO LOVE HIM

VS an addiction to DEAD, DRY, RELIGION (WHICH ANY GROUP CAN EASILY BECOME--ESPECIALLY IF OLDER THAN A YEAR AND A HALF).

The *BIBLE* says the letter of the law kills but the Spirit brings liberty.

[AgThorn]

Beg to differ 1stFreedom, but what you just listed is "Catholicism". And I know since I was raised in it.

If you can't state what they are teaching that is NOT Christian, please don't list "things Catholic" that they are NOT teaching as proof of anything other than you wish they were teaching Catholicism.

[webstersII]

"That protestantism is *not* what is historically known as Christinity.
Historic Christianity:
Belief in the Eucharist
Belife in the Sacraments
Belief in apostolic succession
Belief in the Catholic (Latin for universal) Church
Belief in the Holy Church
Belief in the One Church.
That is historic Christianity. Protestantism, for the most part, is a different religion. Same God, but different religion."

Check your history one more time. Catholicism cannot lay claim to the title "Christian". The word "Christian" (i.e., follow of Christ) predates any organized church or sect or religion. For a short time before they were called Christians it was called "The Way".

[1stFreedom]

>>Check your history one more time. Catholicism cannot lay claim to the title "Christian".

Sure. "Catholic" is merely a latin term used to identify the only Christian faith which existed at the time.

>>The word "Christian" (i.e., follow of Christ) predates any organized church or sect or religion.

The Apostles themselves organized the Church. As you indicate, until the phrase "Christian" was applied, the ORGANIZED faith was known as "the Way". And make no bones about it, the faith was organized -- contrary to the boasts of store front bible churches.

If applying a new name changes a faith, then it could be argued that there were two Apostolic churches -- "the Way" and "Christians". But nobody would buy that. The same goes for using the name "universal" to describe that very same Church. It didn't create a new Church, but rather, just helped to identify that the Church existed and was unified in faith and doctrine.

"the way" and "christian" and "Catholic" are one in the same.

Even in some protestant church creeds you'll find an example of how Catholic is a generic term for Christianity. Their creeds specify a belief in the catholic church -- except that the "C" in Catholic is lower case. This is to indicate their belief in the one faith but not [specifically] the Church of Rome.

There was no "separate" Catholic church -- there was only one faith. The labels used to identify the faith to not mean that there were separate churches. (Sorta like applying "me/myself/and I" to yourself -- it's still the same you regardless of what word you use)

[rdb3]

The word "Christian" (i.e., follow of Christ) predates any organized church or sect or religion. For a short time before they were called Christians it was called "The Way".

Acts 11:26 is where you'll find the first mention of anyone being "Christian" in the Bible. Also, "Christian" was originally meant as an insult for "little Christ."

And you're right. The first mention of someone being a Christian was at Antioch, and that definately predates the Catholic Church.

[BJungNan]

Their church is booming but Chinese Christians meet in secrecy to avoid persecution

Just as a point of information, they can also meet out in the open at any of several churches in Shanghai, all regularly ringing their bells to announce Sunday services and Christmas day services as well.

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

Just as a point of information, they can also meet out in the open at any of several churches in Shanghai, all regularly ringing their bells to announce Sunday services and Christmas day services as well.

Yes, yes, the article acknowledges this, but such churches must submit to the government over and above God in order to meet openly.