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To: Dan Evans
No, my objection was to the way you applied blanket statements to an entire group called Anabaptists. The term Anabaptist is used to describe Christians who share a specific theology.

Beyond that, there is an incredible diversity in lifestyle and economic choices. Mennonites already have sold their farms and are getting rich by turning them into subdivisions. The current cultural and ecomonic landscape of Mennonites is completely different than it was 50 years ago. In the 60's and 70's there was a massive cultural shift among Mennonites and currently their occupational choices, education, land ownership and other factors are more tied in to the general population than the Amish.

You're right, Amish are not selling their farms to outsiders. But they are turning their farms into the Amish version of a subdivision, with only enough grown on a 3 acre lot to feed a horse. So yes, over the years these 40 acre farms are turning into 1-3 acre homesteads with "farming" only being done to provide what the family needs. So the high birth rate means that they aren't needing to sell the farms to outsiders to quit farming. And there is a significant cultural shift right now among the Amish that is looking upon farming negatively as a profession.

Hutterites I don't know much about. Mexican immigrants are mostly doing agricultural work that is labor intensive and very seasonal for very low wages. I don't know any Amish community that would agree to do such work. I think illegal immigration should be stopped, but if you think Amish, Mennonites or Anabaptists are the answer to the labor needs, I strongly disagree.
42 posted on 12/23/2003 5:55:58 AM PST by mongrel
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To: mongrel
I hope you didn't think that I was suggesting we should in some way coerce Anabaptists into doing something they wouldn't want to do. That's not what I meant. Nor do I want to give any special advantage to them, that would be unconstitutional. But rational people make decisions based partly on economic forces. So I believe that ending illegal immigration will open opportunities for Anabaptists and they will take advantage of them.

Amish farmers with their ancient farming techniques can not produce enough to replace the illegal agribusiness. Hutterites, however, can. Hutterite colonies have thousand acre corporate farms but they, like the Amish, are also branching into other industries. They could easily manage their labor to shift from seasonal crop harvesting to product manufacturing.

Illegal immigration is not just about agriculture. I don't know what the breakdown is but a lot of them take menial jobs in the textile, construction and manufacturing business. No, I don't think Amish should be working in sweatshops, but I think they might very likely start their own firms (designed maybe by Mennonites) if they see an economic vacuum open up.

So these new trends you've outlined are not incompatible with the notion that they will take up tasks previously done by illegals. I focus on Anabaptists only as an example. There are likely a lot of other people in this country that are perfectly willing to do the work of illegals. My point is to stomp out the silly notion that Americans have grown so soft we are incapable of menial labor.

Nor is it a given that crop production must be done by menial labor. A few years ago the University of California had a project to develop machinery to harvest crops that are currently picked by hand. Some Luddite realized that would put farm laborers out of a job and they killed the program. So, point is, it could be done and we never know what events might transpire if we closed the immigration floodgates.

One other thing that I'd like to mention. If we were to stop immigration to this country, our population would begin to decline. If that happens I don't think we should respond by paying people to have children. We should help productive people who like to have children. We should take land that has been locked up by the government and sell it for agricultural use. You can be sure that at least the Hutterites will buy it up if not the Amish.

The one blanket statement that you can make about Anabaptists is that they have a social formula that, like few other religions, produces a lot of decent hard-working people. And that is something this country needs.
45 posted on 12/23/2003 9:58:35 AM PST by Dan Evans
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