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"He led the team to 114 wins and 20 losses in 10 years while winning seven league championships. Nobody else ever did that. Maybe he was the greatest, period."

Hard to argue with that.

1 posted on 12/20/2003 9:33:24 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
Very nice reading thankyou
2 posted on 12/20/2003 9:36:25 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: E Rocc; Bikers4Bush; rdb3
CLEVELAND PING
3 posted on 12/20/2003 9:37:05 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
Back in the days when Cleveland wasn't a joke.
4 posted on 12/20/2003 9:38:16 AM PST by Commiewatcher
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To: Chi-townChief
That was the last conversation I had with Cleveland's greatest football player. He led the team to 114 wins and 20 losses in 10 years while winning seven league championships. Nobody else ever did that. Maybe he was the greatest, period.

Maybe, but there are a few catches. Four of the seven league championships were in the All America Football Conference, an independent league which competed with the NFL. The reason that league failed was that Paul Brown easily out-recruited all the other AAFC teams and grabbed all the available talent. The Browns hardly ever lost in AAFC competition, even in the regular season. They won the title in all four years of its existence. (But, when the league went under, the Forty-Niners and Colts joined the Browns in making the transition into the NFL.)

Another point is that Brown minutely scripted the Browns team, even to calling the offensive plays in that pre-tech era by shuttling the offensive guards on every play. Although no NFL quarterback calls his own plays now, it was almost unheard of in the 50s for there to be any other arrangement. Part of the legendary aspect of the careers of Unitas and Starr, for instance, is that they were good playcallers. Although Graham actually had to read defenses and occasionally audible, he never got much credit for the brainy side of the Browns offense because of Brown's overshadowing figure.

7 posted on 12/20/2003 9:50:16 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Chi-townChief
There were only 29,751 of us at Cleveland Municipal Stadium on the bitterly cold afternoon of Christmas Eve 1950 to watch the Browns play the Los Angeles Rams for the NFL championship in their first season in the league. It became Graham's most remembered game.

I was there.

8 posted on 12/20/2003 9:57:58 AM PST by monocle
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To: Chi-townChief
Damn that Otto Graham

As I kid I hated him and the Browns cause the always beat the EAGLES especially in 1950 just after the EAGLES came off two straight NFL championships

He surely was one of the GREATS
9 posted on 12/20/2003 10:09:58 AM PST by uncbob
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To: AbsoluteJustice; Barnacle; BeAllYouCanBe; BillyBoy; cfrels; cherry_bomb88; chicagolady; ...
I guess since Otto Graham was born in Waukegan and starred in football and basketball at Northwestern, this should get a Chicago Ping as well.
14 posted on 12/20/2003 10:32:52 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
Thanx. I lived in WVA and the Browns were our "local" team. Their games were broadcast evey Sunday in WVA. I watched the first half of every game. Then we had to leave to catch the bus to boarding school.

In WVA the Jim Brown/Sam Huff matchups drew the most interest, but Otto Graham and Lou Groza were my favs until Brown came along.

My dad told me to become a place kicker like Groza since you could make a living and not get hit a lot. I didn't follow his advice and joined the offensive line in the pits.

16 posted on 12/20/2003 10:35:54 AM PST by breakem
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To: Chi-townChief
I've listened with interest as the old-timers talk about the era before free substitution when players went both ways, and I'm struck with the fact that teams often went with a single 'signature play' or two until the defense stopped it. Green Bay had it's Power Sweep, the Colts had Unitas-to-Berry, etc. Much more of an 'in your face' style -- find a weakness (usually an outmanned player) and exploit it until the defense shifts to cover it. Only then did the offense adjust.

Today you have 'situational substitutions' and 'scripted plays' -- a tacit admission that the defense controls today's game. Every good offense relies on a high degree of deception. If a play works, many times you won't see it again until much later in the game. Even the best teams aren't able to man-handle a weaker team. Divisional opponents often split the season series unless one of the teams is the basement dweller and the other is among the League's elite.

Bottom line: it's a vastly different game since the early '60s.

19 posted on 12/20/2003 10:45:41 AM PST by Tallguy (I can't think of anything to say -- John Entwistle in "The Kids are Alright")
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To: Chi-townChief; All
The "All-American Football Conference" was a post-WWII rival to the NFL. They had some great teams and great players in the few years they played in the late 1940's.

Trivia time: Which three teams from the AAFC merged with the NFL in 1950? (No fair looking this one up, that would be too easy.)

22 posted on 12/20/2003 11:58:45 AM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: Chi-townChief
If a rusher so much as touches a quarterback after he has released the football today, he is penalized for roughing.

So true. I'm watching the Bucs-Falcons game right now, and a few minute ago Tampa QB Brad Johnson was blasted by an ATL defensive lineman a second after he released the ball (and threw an INT for a Falcon TD). I was a borderline late hit, but that didn't prevent the ultra-sensitive fella in the booth from claiming that the D-lineman should not only have been penalized for the hit, but he should've been tossed from the game.

23 posted on 12/20/2003 12:04:40 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Chi-townChief
Otto Graham never bragged or boasted. Like most athletes of the 1940s and 1950s he did not shag, shake or shimmy when he performed one of his football miracles.

That's because back then, professional football was comprised mostly of white players.

25 posted on 12/20/2003 12:31:43 PM PST by usadave
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To: Chi-townChief
The greatest, indeed.

RIP

27 posted on 12/20/2003 12:43:34 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Chi-townChief
Posted on Thu, Dec. 18, 2003

Akron Beacon Journal

Graham a champion in life
By Terry Pluto

He met me at the door, wearing a shirt that read: PAUL'S GUYS.

He had a huge smile, a warm handshake, and all day to tell stories.

That's what I remember about Otto Graham.

He was more than a Hall of Fame quarterback, the best in the history of the Browns.

He was a good man.

Graham died Wednesday at the age of 82 of heart problems. If Paul Brown was the man who invented the Cleveland Browns as most of us know them, it was Graham who made Brown perhaps the greatest coach in the history of pro football.

Graham and Brown were together for 10 years, four in the old All-American Football Conference and the next six in the NFL.

In all 10 of those years, they went to the title game.

Seven times, they won.

It's a record that might never be matched again.

But that's not what Graham talked about in Sarasota, Fla., that Sunday afternoon, when he invited me to his nice home in a modest neighborhood.

He talked about the fun he had as a football player.

He talked about the strong personality of Brown.

He talked about how autographs had become an industry.

``I never would believe you could charge for an autograph,'' he said.

``Do you?'' I asked.

``If you want me to sign it for yourself or your Uncle Harry, no problem,'' he said. ``I'll personalize it for you. But if you just want me to sign my name on 10 things and nothing else, then I know you'll sell it. So I expect a little something.''

That's classic Graham, sizing up a situation.

Always a good guy

He then talked about being the coach of the Washington Redskins from 1966-68, his record being 17-22-3.

``You've got to be part SOB to be a good NFL coach,'' he said. ``I was too nice of a guy. In one game, I had a rookie who dropped a punt. On the sidelines, I put my arm around him.''

What happened?

``People booed,'' said Graham. ``I couldn't help it. I felt bad for the kid.''

Vince Lombardi replaced him.

``He could be an SOB,'' Graham said. ``Like Don Shula, Paul Brown, all of them.''

Not Graham.

He was most comfortable coaching at the little Coast Guard Academy, where, for seven seasons, he could work with Cadets without having to worry about winning always being the bottom line.

The day I visited him, he had Graham, his pet black Labrador, at his side. He enjoyed taking walks and talking to strangers. He said that he never made more than $25,000 as a player and that he never was obsessed with money.

He was the kind of guy you'd have wanted as a neighbor, a person who believed you treated people just as you wanted to be treated.

I liked him very much.

All-around standout

Veteran Cleveland sportswriter Hal Lebovitz knew Graham well.

``He played the piano,'' Lebovitz said.

What else?

``I first saw him play pro basketball,'' he said.

It was in the old National Basketball League in the early 1940s, Lebovitz said. He said Graham was a gritty point guard for the Rochester Royals, where his teammates included Red Holzman and the forward-turned-actor Chuck Connors.

Lebovitz was an official in that league and, later, covered Graham with the Browns.

``He and Paul Brown would really butt heads,'' Lebovitz said. ``But after Otto became a coach himself, then he turned into Paul Brown's biggest fan.''

Graham told me that his teams won five consecutive titles with him calling the plays, then Brown decided he'd take over the offense.

``I didn't like it,'' Graham said. ``But he was Paul Brown, so I did it.''

Not always.

``They had a big game with Detroit,'' Lebovitz said. ``The night before, several key players met with Otto at the old Pick Carter Hotel in Cleveland. They told him that he had to call the plays. Otto did, and they won.''

Graham discovered something that day.

``If I changed the play and it worked, I didn't hear anything,'' he said. `'If it didn't, I never heard the end of it.''

So he picked his spots.

Graham was a running back at Northwestern. Brown converted him to quarterback. Lebovitz said Graham credited former Browns assistant Blanton Collier with teaching him the nuances of the position.

How were his passes?

``Perfect spirals,'' Lebovitz said.

Really?

``I never saw him throw a really bad ball,'' Lebovitz said.

Or say a really unkind word.

Messages for Terry Pluto can be left at 330-996-3816 or terrypluto2003@yahoo.com Sign up for Terry's free weekly e-mail newsletter at www.thebeaconjournal.com/newsletter/

29 posted on 12/20/2003 3:53:27 PM PST by Deadeye Division
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To: Chi-townChief
In lieu of flowers, the family has requested donations be made to the Boys and Girls Club of Sarasota; P.O. Box 4068, Sarasota, Fla., (941) 953-5369.
30 posted on 12/20/2003 3:56:39 PM PST by Deadeye Division
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To: Chi-townChief
Fair Winds and Following Seas, Captain




http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/faqs/ottograham.html
31 posted on 12/20/2003 4:03:34 PM PST by Coastie (Try not! Do or Do Not! - Yoda)
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To: Chi-townChief
To put that into perspective, can you imagine Tim Couch or Kelly Holcomb playing safety today?
Tim actually might be able to, he's a very good athlete and is proven tough. He'd have to bulk up some though. Still, the point is made.

Graham or Montana was the best QB ever to play the game.

-Eric

33 posted on 12/21/2003 9:48:15 AM PST by E Rocc (It wasn't until 1998 that the old AFL teams won more NFL Titles than the old AAFC teams.)
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To: Chi-townChief
And the Browns of today promptly went out on Sunday and disgraced his memory.
40 posted on 12/22/2003 6:27:57 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Bush and Co. are quickly convincing me that the Constitution Party is our only hope.)
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