[tcuoohjohn]

Karenga's motivation and the end result are very different however. As to collectivism the same charge could be levelled at Christmas or Thanksqiving and will little or no real impact. Kindness and the spirit of giving and sharing could always be deemed " collectivist" and " Marxist" if one chooses. The distinction is the voluntariness of the acts. I see no coercion in Kwanzaa and if I did I would most assuredly oppose it. It is a voluntary festival/ ritual little different from any other harvest festival activities.

I just looked up the quasi-liturgical aspects of the Kwanzaa festival and see no compelling "marxist or collectivist" reasoning anymore than I see it in the "blessing of the animals" at Saint Matthews Parish In Jacksonville. I can tell you that my dog isn't annoyed at it..just a bit bewildered.

[AnAmericanMother]

How about "The Pledge" - straight from Marcus Garvey, BTW:

WE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE RED, BLACK, AND GREEN, OUR FLAG, THE SYMBOL OF OUR ETERNAL STRUGGLE, AND TO THE LAND WE MUST OBTAIN; ONE NATION OF BLACK PEOPLE, WITH ONE GOD OF US ALL, TOTALLY UNITED IN THE STRUGGLE, FOR BLACK LOVE, BLACK FREEDOM, AND BLACK SELF-DETERMINATION

If that's a "harvest festival", I'm the Queen of Sheba.

[Spiff]

Defending Kwanzaa because it has somehow morphed from its intent and its founder is just plain stupid. If it has lost its meaning, then why participate? The "African" trappings are crap as you are an American, not an African. And why "celebrate" a made-up "African" culture anyway? It is made up, fake, false, stoopid. There is no harvest festival in December in Africa. No one in Africa even knows what Kwanzaa is and would laugh at your silly faux-African crap.

And if you are Christian you certainly should have absolutely nothing to do with it as it is overtly anti-Christian.