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Marine major first to face charges arising from actions on prisoners
San Diego Union Tribune ^ | December 18, 2003 | Rick Rogers

Posted on 12/18/2003 11:01:42 AM PST by SamKeck

Case opens in treatment of Iraqis

CAMP PENDLETON – The first of eight cases against Marines charged with abusing – and in one case killing – Iraqi prisoners went to court here yesterday.

Maj. William Vickers is charged with failing to obey an order or regulation for allegedly allowing his men to mistreat prisoners while he was in charge of a small detention facility outside Nasiriyah, about 180 miles southeast of Baghdad.

The charges against the eight range from dereliction of duty to negligent homicide.

"This is a case, a situation about what is right and what is wrong when it comes to dealing with civilian detainees and prisoners of war when the United States is operating in a combat zone," Capt. Jamie McCall, a prosecutor in the case, said in opening statements.

Jane Siegel, Vickers' civilian defense attorney, said her client did the best he could after being stuck in a job that he was wasn't trained for and one that one else wanted.

"Vickers was just the guy who came up and got tagged for it," said Siegel, a retired Marine colonel in legal services. "No one could get any information on how to run the detention facility . . . Like any good Marine, he was trying to get the job done."

The case against Vickers, 36, is that he knew his guards were employing the "50/10 technique," in which prisoners were forced to stand for 50 minutes of every hour for 10 or more straight hours in heat sometimes topping 120 degrees.

For about six weeks starting in mid-April 2003, Vickers was in charge of the detention facility.

Former guards testified yesterday that new prisoners were handcuffed and a sandbag placed over their heads. Then they were forced to stand for hours until interrogators from the "Human Exploitation Team" arrived to question them.

After questioning, the prisoners were usually not treated like that again, they testified.

"The question is, does prolonged standing and sleep deprivation constitute a low-grade torture?" asked Maj. Mark K. Jamison, a legal officer from Camp Pendleton. "If so, usually the person in charge is responsible."

Two former guards who testified doubted that the technique used to make prisoners more likely to talk was inhumane.

"All we asked them to do was stand for a period of time," said Cpl. Otis Antoine, who was a guard for Vickers. U.S. "soldiers over there got tortured and killed, but they were just asked to stand."

The charges against Vickers and seven others arose after the death of Nagem Sadoon Hatab, a ranking Baath Party official, on June 6 at Camp Whilehorse.

An autopsy showed that Hatab, 52, died essentially from having his throat crushed.

Vickers was not in charge of the detention facility when Hatab died, but was charged, a Marine spokesman said, as a result of allegations by former guards about activities that occurred later.

He is the first of the eight Marines belonging to the 2nd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment, a reserve unit based in New England, to have his case move forward in court. The Marines are being kept on active duty at Camp Pendleton while their cases are being handled.

Vickers' military preliminary hearing is expected to last through Friday, after which an investigative officer will recommend to 1st Marine Division commander Maj. Gen. James Mattis whether Vickers should be tried by the military.

Three of the Marine reservists already have been ordered to face special courts-martial for alleged abuse of detainees at the camp; however, they have not yet gone to court.

Hearings for the other four Marines are scheduled for January.

The current hearing is being presided over by Col. William Gallo.

For fair use only.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 25thmarines; iraqipows; marines; usmc; warcrime; williamvickers
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Somehow this story seems to be flying a bit below the national media's radar screen.
1 posted on 12/18/2003 11:01:43 AM PST by SamKeck
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To: RaceBannon
Thought this might interest you.
2 posted on 12/18/2003 11:02:53 AM PST by SamKeck (The battle for Helms Deep is over and the battle for Middle Earth has begun.)
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To: SamKeck
Interesting case, indeed. It will be interesting to see its outcome. I will follow it and see what facts emerge. From this story, we actually learn very little.
3 posted on 12/18/2003 11:14:37 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: SamKeck
Can someone give me one logical reason the Marines are in charge of these detainees?

Why would you put bulldogs in charge of the kitty litter?

This was, is, and should be a job for Army Military Police trained in police type activities...

Let the Marines do what they do best...kill people and break things...

I just dont get it.

Waste of good marines if you ask me.
5 posted on 12/18/2003 11:59:38 AM PST by antaresequity (...)
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To: SamKeck
The reason that it is not being reported is that the Marine Corps is quietly taking care of business - as always.

The marines that committed the crimes have been disciplined and this is the C.O.'s responsibility - he knows it and should accept it. Ask anyone in command and they will confirm that THEY are the ones RESPONSIBLE.

You can delegate authority to underlings, but you can NEVER delegate responsibility.


.
6 posted on 12/18/2003 12:44:51 PM PST by steplock (www.FOCUS.GOHOTSPRINGS.com)
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To: antaresequity
The Marine Corps runs the most efficient and fairest penal system in the military (Nobody EVER wants to return!) - unfortunately, these were not trained Military Police (I don't believe). In combat, you have to pick someone to guard prisoners, and if it ends up being someone that has just been IN combat, there usually are some --- unfortunate consequences.

But the Marines accept no excuse for F'ing Up as one would say in the Corps.
7 posted on 12/18/2003 12:49:53 PM PST by steplock (www.FOCUS.GOHOTSPRINGS.com)
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To: MineralMan
From this story, we actually learn very little.

Yep.

8 posted on 12/18/2003 4:35:51 PM PST by lepton
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To: antaresequity
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2003/01/mil-030130-usmc03.htm

New England's Own Activated
Story by Cpl. Lana D. Waters
Story Identification Number: 2003130122019

AYER, Mass.(January 30, 2003) -- More than 740 reserve Marines of 1st Battalion, 25th Marines, 4th Marine Division, said good-bye to their loved ones before leaving here Jan 23.

These Marines from Maine, New Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, who call themselves "New England's Own," were activated in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, Jan 15, and reported to Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, NC, on Jan. 24 for duty with 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force.

According to Lt. Col. Mark A. Sullivan, officer in charge, Peacetime Wartime Support Team, 1/25, the Reserve Marines will provide operational tempo relief and will be ready to respond to possible future contingencies.

"They are expected to be on active duty for at least a year and can be extended for another year," Sullivan said. "We do not know what, if any, follow on mission they will have."

The infantry battalion specializes in cold weather operations, and has trained in arctic climates such as Canada, Norway, and Estonia for their two-week annual training.

The reserve Marines of 1/25 last saw combat during Operation Desert Storm in 1991, where they fought on the front lines as part of 1st Marine Division.

"Mobilization is our number one priority in training. The Marines at 1/25 train for mobilization year in and year out, so they are always ready to go," Sullivan said. "What's more, the tremendous support of their families, employers, and friends of the Marine Corps enhance their readiness. This external support is a force multiplier for the battalion because it reduces distractions for the Marines, which allows them to accomplish their mission more effectively."

Reserve Marines with 2nd Battalion, 25th Marines, another 25th Marine Regiment battalion, participated in a similar activation last year. While at Camp Lejeune, 2/25 trained extensively as a battalion in numerous exercises while some companies deployed to the Balkans to participate in operations there. They also rotated with active duty units as the air contingency battalion, a standby force ready to react to crises anywhere in the United States.
9 posted on 12/18/2003 5:03:13 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: SamKeck
http://www.fox225.com/news_jacksonville.html

March 25, 2002

BIG APPLE NOT JUST A VISIT
JDNEWS, New York

Each year, Camp Lejeune Marines and sailors participate in a Fleet Week celebration in New York City.

But not this year.

The Marines will be from Camp Lejeune, but the group making the trip will be reservists from New York, who will make a triumphant return to the Big Apple.

"It feels great, and we hope to send one of our companies from the New York City area," said Maj. Wally Powers, assistant operations officer with the 2nd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment, which has 1,149 reservists at Lejeune who were called from New York and New England after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11.

Powers is among the New Yorkers. He left his job as a Bronx firefighter following the call-up.

"We're pretty excited to get four to five days when we sail into New York City Harbor."

Last year, the 5th Battalion, 10th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, spearheaded a group of Marines and sailors from 25 different units at Camp Lejeune on board the aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy and the amphibious assault ship USS Shreveport. They joined an armada of 14 U.S. and 21 allied ships during the weeklong celebration that included Memorial Day weekend.

They typically bring examples of every conceivable piece of equipment to show the New York public what Marines actually do.

But this year there are special feelings for both the military and civilians attending.

"A good portion of the battalion is from the New York City area, and we are looking forward to seeing our family and friends," said Maj. Ralph Dengler, an operations officer who is a lawyer in private practice. ‘We'll probably send a reinforced company of approximately 200 people consisting of a lot of New York City-based Marines.

"We are going to show the flag and let the New York City people know that we're serving them," Dengler said.

Last year's celebration included two military group displays, one at Staten Island, N.Y., and another in Manhattan. They also made appearances on several national TV shows and had an opportunity to attend Mets and Yankees baseball games.

Feeling of pride

Veterans of the annual event spoke of a special feeling of pride as they stood at the rail of the ship in their dress blue uniforms and sailed past the Statue of Liberty.

But this year's celebration promises to include a very somber tone.

"It's been tough being away from my family and the firehouse, but everyone is ready to do whatever we are asked to do," said Powers, a former firefighter with Engine 45. "A lot of things are going on in the world, and it's nice to be able to do this, especially with such an uncertain future."

Dengler agreed.

"Many of these Marines and sailors in the unit witnessed the events of Sept. 11 first hand and they were affected by it," Dengler said.

In addition to the thousands of people who lost friends and family in the tragedy, Dengler said that they also lost two people who had been part of their reserve unit.

Marine reservist Cpl. Sean P. Tallon, assigned to their anti-armor platoon, was a New York firefighter and emergency medical technician who was killed at the World Trade Center.

Marine reservist Sgt. Maj. Michael Curtin formally served as the first sergeant with the unit and was lost. Curtin was a police sergeant working with emergency services.

"They recovered (Curtin's) body a week ago, and it is important for his family to find a final resting place," Dengler said.

Despite the seriousness, leaders in 2/25 said that there are special feelings of patriotic duty because they are all volunteers and they are connected by the same community.

"The people of New York City always have been supportive of the military, but especially since September 11th," Dengler said.

Although the actual dates for this year's Fleet Week celebration are not yet confirmed, Powers said that it should happen sometime between May 19 and 31.

Eric Steinkopff can be contacted by e-mail at esteinkopff@jdnews.com or by telephone at 353-1171, Ext. 236.

For more information contact Major Kelly Houlgate, (518) 489-4221/4226, or Marine Forces Reserve Public Affairs, (504) 678-0700/4177.

back to news

Company F, 2d Battalion, 25th Marines 4th Marine Division
780 Washington Ave, Albany, New York 12203-1493
518-489-4221


10 posted on 12/18/2003 5:05:00 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: notorious vrc; kdf1; AMERIKA; Lancey Howard; MudPuppy; SMEDLEYBUTLER; opbuzz; Snow Bunny; ...
http://www.mfr.usmc.mil/4thmardiv/25thmar/1stBn/unit_history.htm


Unit History

"New England's Own" Selected Marine Corps Reserve unit was originally established in Boston, Massachusetts, as an infantry company in the early 1920's. It was not until some years later that the unit attained battalion status.

In April of 1926, Captain John J. Flynn was named the Commanding Officer of the 301st Company, USMCR, with Headquarters at the Marine Barracks, Charlestown Navy Yard. Building #5, the Navy Officer's Mess, was used for drill and formation until the Company was called to active duty on November 8, 1940.

During its varied and illustrious history, the 1st Battalion, 25th Marines has undergone some redesignations. From its beginning as the 301st Company, the Battalion has been variously redesignated as an Artillery Company (December 29, 1928); the 301st Infantry Company (December 1, 1929); Company A, 1st Battalion, 19th Reserve Marines (February 15, 1933); 2nd Battalion, Fleet Marine Corps Reserve (February 1, 1935) - at that point a battalion had an authorized strength of 256 men, comparable to an infantry company in today's table of organization.

There was an especially critical period in the life of "New England's Own" from 1931 to 1934. During those years, Congress discontinued all drill and administrative pay. Those stalwarts who stayed with the organization did so voluntarily. New members were required to purchase their own uniforms. The fact that the Battalion survived this critical period is a "banner" on their history.

The 2nd Battalion continued as a unit until called to active service on the eve of World War II. The Battalion was sent to Marine Corps Base, Quantico, Virginia, and then to Cuba where it was split in January 1941 to serve with various units serving in Cuba at the time.

On May 1, 1943, the 1st Battalion, 25th Marines was formed at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and was then shipped off to Camp Pendleton, California, to be assigned to the 4th Marine Division, During the war the 1st Battalion, 25th Marines saw action in the following island-hopping campaigns: Kwajalein, Saipan, Tinian and Iwojima. The Battalion earned special honors for its action on Iwo Jima. The Battalion played a critical role in the seizure of Hill 382 ("Turkey Knob") in an area that Marine,,, on Iwo Jima called the "Meat Grinder." For its actions, the Battalion earned a Presidential Unit Citation. The Battalion saw no further action during the war due to having to rebuild the Battalion after the heavy losses on Iwo Jima. The Battalion was deactivated on October 31, 1945.

After World War II, on October 1, 1946, the 2nd Infantry Battalion was activated at the Naval and Marine Corps Training Center in South Boston under the command of Lieutenant Colonel James J. Dugan, who had established an excellent personal record as a member of the Battalion before the war and distinguished himself by outstanding service during World War II. Lieutenant Colonel Dugan remained as the Commanding Officer until July 1950, shortly before the Battalion was called to active duty during the Korean War. The service during the Korea War was short and the Battalion was quickly returned to Boston in October of 1951, where it grew into one of the largest Marine Reserve units in the country.

On July 1, 1962, the Battalion was reorganized and redesignated in conjunction with the new concept and mission of the Marine Corps Reserve as the 1st Battalion, 25th Marines, 4th Marine Division, FMF, USMCR, with the Battalion Headquarters located in Boston, Massachusetts. On September 30, 1977, the Headquarters was relocated to Camp Edwards, Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

Since its reorganization in 1962, the Battalion has participated in a variety of training experiences, including desert maneuvers at 29 Palms, California; amphibious training in Little Creek, Virginia; mountain warfare training at Bridgeport, California; cold weather training in Norway, and numerous field exercises at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. Attesting to the effective role which the unit played in these and other programs, the 1st Battalion, 25th Marines received the GENERAL HARRY SCHMIDT TROPHY for the most combat ready battalion in the 4th Marine Division in 1970,1989, and 1990- No other battalion in the 4th marine Division can claim that they have won this trophy in consecutive years.

On November 25, 1990, the Battalion was again called to active duty to serve in the Gulf War against Iraq. 'I'he Battalion moved to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and was promptly moved into the Kuwait Theater of Operations on December 29, 1 990. The Battalion was assigned as an independent battalion within the 1st Marine Division. While attached to the 1st Marine Division, it performed a variety of missions to include Rear Area Security and Enemy Prisoner of War Control. The Battalion was With the frontline units during the war, which made it one of the few Reserve units to see frontline service. During the Ground offensive the Battalion was to receive the responsibility of controlling over 8,500 Iraq POWs and processing them to rear areas of the 1st Marine Division. The Battalion was returned to the United States in April of 1991 and was deactivated at Camp Edwards, Massachusetts.

On June 9, 2000, the Headquarters was relocated to Devens Reserve Forces Training Area, Massachusetts.The Battalion is still performing its mission of training for the possible call-up for active service in times of national emergency. Today the Battalion is spread over the New England area with the Headquarters and Service Company along with the Weapons Company located at Devens RFTA. Company A is located at Topsham, Maine; Company B is located at Londonderry, New Hampshire; and Company C is located at Plainville, Connecticut.


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I brought a case of O'Doul's Beer to the Plainville unit when they got activated last year.
11 posted on 12/18/2003 5:09:40 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: lepton; kdf1; AMERIKA; Lancey Howard; MudPuppy; SMEDLEYBUTLER; opbuzz; Snow Bunny; gitmogrunt; ...
Looks like 1st and 2nd battalion are New England and New York together.

2nd Battalion looks like a strictly New York Battalion, while 1st is a composite battalion from all over New England.
12 posted on 12/18/2003 5:17:11 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: RaceBannon
bump
13 posted on 12/18/2003 6:42:28 PM PST by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: antaresequity
Let the Marines do what they do best...kill people and break things...

Marines are charged with exact performance of any assigned duty.

Walt

14 posted on 12/18/2003 8:58:00 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: steplock; RaceBannon
The Marines that committed the crimes have been disciplined and this is the C.O.'s responsibility - he knows it and should accept it. Ask anyone in command and they will confirm that THEY are the ones RESPONSIBLE. You can delegate authority to underlings, but you can NEVER delegate responsibility.

I wonder if someone could help this ol' Marine out and tell me what the "crimes" were. This article leaves much to be desired.

15 posted on 12/19/2003 4:25:05 AM PST by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: steplock
Completely agree, but what the article describes is not what I would think of when told someone was tortured.

My question is rather straightforward: Is making someone stand for long periods of time torture? My wife, when she worked retail, was literally on her feet for 8 to 10 hours a day. I do consider it hard, but hardly torture.
16 posted on 12/19/2003 4:40:24 AM PST by dpa5923 (Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
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To: dpa5923
My question is rather straightforward: Is making someone stand for long periods of time torture? My wife, when she worked retail, was literally on her feet for 8 to 10 hours a day. I do consider it hard, but hardly torture.

Was it done in conjunction with denying her fluids and the store temperature being 120 degrees?

17 posted on 12/19/2003 5:05:22 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Coop
Actually "crimes" is a strong word - improper at the least - but IF soemone died from forcing to make someone stand in 120 degree for 10 hours, then it was a crime.

Manslaughter is a crime - it is causing a death (non-intentional) through NEGLECT of other menas (a very much non-lawyer definition here).

I'm a 12 year USMC veteran.
18 posted on 12/19/2003 6:20:28 AM PST by steplock (www.FOCUS.GOHOTSPRINGS.com)
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To: steplock
The only death I saw mentioned was from a neck injury - separate from the standing. Like I said, the article is pretty weak, and I think the "crimes" are very questionable at this time. Semper Fi!

19 posted on 12/19/2003 6:25:02 AM PST by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Poohbah
I didn't see anything about dening fluids and although I wasn't there, the temp was not 120 for the entire 10 hours and they did sit 10 minutes per hour.

I agree, this is hard and extremely painful, but is it torture? As the Cpl asked, is "prolonged standing and sleep deprivation" torture?
20 posted on 12/19/2003 6:45:14 AM PST by dpa5923 (Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
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