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>>15,000 casualties during the Battle of the Bulge
Yipes! That was pretty much the entire division, wasn't it?

A US Division was arranged differently then, a good bit larger than today's *triangular* arrangement of three squads per platoon, three platoons per compant, three companies per battalion, [plus HQ company] and so forth.

Without checking references, I want to say off the top of my head that a division then was around 22,000 men, now down to around 17,700 personnel, including some 15% female troops, more in some units, less in others.

In any event, the combat loss of 15,000 of your men is not at all my idea of a resounding success, though they held off Von Runstedt's forces, including 5 divisions hitting them the first day reinforced by four more following up within the following days for long enough for Patton's Third Army to do a pretty good imitation of the cavalry coming to the rescue of a wagon train. And at that they did considerably better than their sister Pennsylvania division the 99th *Checkerboard* Division, also caught by the Germans during the Battle of the Bulge, including some 75 of their men caught by the First SS Panzer Division near a little spot called Malmedy.

Interestingly, the 28th Infantry Division is the oldest division in the Armed Forces of the United States, officially established by General Orders No. 1, dated 12 March 1879. Maybe today's troops of the unit will do a little better than their WWII predecessors, whether because of their new vehicles or in spite of them.

Well, Patton took much longer to get there. The guys that plugged the hole were the XVIII airborne corps, Matthew Ridgeway's, with the 82nd and 101st airborne. The left side of the US position held at Elsenborn ridge early, and cut up the leading group of German armor on the north side of the breakthrough - with the 82nd helping. On the south side, the 101 got into Bastogne and was bypassed there, tying down a lot of Germans. That is the group Patton later came up from the south to relieve. The lead German elements continued west of Bastogne, and were met head on by the 2nd armor division ("Hell on wheels"), and defeated at the battle of Celles. Patton then drove in the whole south wall of the Bulge and the Germans pulled back past Bastogne. There was very heavy fighting there into January, as the Germans fought to keep the route open for their forward elements to get back. Which they basically did - half of them or so, anyway. The whole see-saw took about a month. About 75,000 men were lost on each side (if you pick different ending dates you can get just about any figure).

Cole's "Green Book" US army official history of the battle is available online at the center for military history, here.

They have done OK in previous assignments in the Balkans and in the GWOT. The KFOR and SFOR missions stink but they are good preparation for overseas life in the conventional mil today.

Before the 80s and more so the 90s the Guard was often behind in equipment (remember the Kent State soldiers with M1 rifles? Good job they didn't have full-auto 16s...) but since then the Guard often fields stuff at the same time or even before active units.

I flew into a camp in central Afghanistan in a Blackhawk belonging to one of the 82nd's assault helicopter companies. A few days later, I was medevaced in a Blackhawk belonging to a California Army Guard medevac unit... I was astonished by how much more modern the Guard chopper was. The 82nd had steam gages and would not fly after dark. The Guard guys had all space-age MFDs and flew me through the mountains to safety, in the pitch dark. The pilots were also a lot sharper about mountain weather.

When I went back out (my non-combat injuries were not serious) I was back to flying day VFR with the 82nd... very good crews and well maintained gear, but the Guard guys were that much sharper. I didn't tell the Deuce guys that (hell, we depended on them for supply... no choppers, no fresh fruits and veg).

I believe that on returning to Bragg, the 82nd guys got the new copters before going to Iraq.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

15,000 casualties during the Battle of the Bulge

Your posts are usually so good, and so informative to these discussions, that I feel compelled to make a few minor corrections so that we can continue to rely on you for the straight poop.

I do not recall off the top of my head, the 28th Inf Div's casualties, but they were very large. I will try to find a source and post it later. But, they actually experienced their biggest losses in the Battle of the Hurtgen Forest. They were bloodied badly again during the Bulge, but their Bloody Bucket nickname comes from the Hurtgen where 4 U.S. divisions were chewed up in heavy fighting during the summer and fall of 1944.

The organization that you describe is precisely the division organization of World War II. During World War I, divisions were much larger, comprising 2 brigades of 2 regiments. Each regiment had three battalions, with 4 rifle companies. Each rifle company had 4 platoons of 4 rifle squads. This organization was known as the square division. For World War II, the division was streamlined for mobility purposes - the brigades were eliminated, regiments reduced by one, and subordinate elements standardized at three. This was known as the triangular division.

I think that the General Order you cite is a Pennsylvania General Order, not a federal one. Pennsylvania was the first state to organize its militia into a division organization, but I don't think that the U.S. Army recognizes this. A minor point, but since the Big Red One mafia rules, I don't think that the 28th Division will ever be granted seniority status.