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Police Ask For Manslaughter Charges In Farmer's Market Crash
KNBC ^ | 12/17/2003

Posted on 12/17/2003 5:24:47 PM PST by hole_n_one

Police Ask For Manslaughter Charges In Farmer's Market Crash

10 People Killed, 69 Injured In Tragedy

POSTED: 3:10 PM PST December 17, 2003
UPDATED: 5:16 PM PST December 17, 2003

LOS ANGELES -- Santa Monica police will ask the district attorney to bring a manslaughter charge against an 86-year-old man whose car roared through a farmer's market in the beach-front city last summer, killing 10 people.

The accident, which also injured 69 people, was the result of unsafe speed and other violations on the part of Russell Weller, Police Chief James T. Butts told reporters outside police headquarters late Wednesday afternoon.



TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crash; farmersmarket; russellweller
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To: WackyKat
In some states, a manslaughter charge can be premised on a death that the defendant caused during the commission of a misdemeanor or minor felony.

I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that in some states if a person's culpability shows that he purposely acted in a reckless manner he can also be charged with manslaughter. I just feel that because of his advanced age he will use the defense of dementia and or senility.

21 posted on 12/17/2003 9:17:55 PM PST by Wiggins
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To: hole_n_one
Murder requires intent. This was apparently an accident. One of those sad tales.
22 posted on 12/17/2003 9:19:17 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("...the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.")
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To: hole_n_one
In this case, it was certainly no accident.

And the basis for your conclusion is?

23 posted on 12/17/2003 9:25:11 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("...the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.")
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
Murder requires intent.

I stand by my contention that Weller intended to perpetrate the carnage he wrought.

24 posted on 12/17/2003 9:28:23 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
And the basis for your conclusion is?

Read this thread and the thread linked at reply 17 for your answer.

25 posted on 12/17/2003 9:31:24 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: honeygrl
I seem to recall one whitness hearing the man say "they should've gotten out of my way" when he got out of the car.

This reminds me of an accident near here on the Interstate I-55. An elderly man had somehow gotten going in the wrong direction of the freeway. He hit a car and killed three persons. He survived. But, at his hearing he said it was their fault because they were driving too fast. Get these old codgers off the road.

26 posted on 12/17/2003 9:36:07 PM PST by Conservababe
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To: hole_n_one
"The aftermath of the accident has taken a dreadful toll on him and his family."

didn't he kill a child as well?......none of the "dreadful toll" that he supposedly has taken can match losing a loved one, out for a day at the Farmer's market....

I don't care if he ever goes to jail, but he must pay a huge amount of money and he must never, ever get behind a steering wheel again.....

perhaps he can make some public announcement messages to be played on tv:...."I killed 10 people and injured 60 more because I was not qualified to be driving.".......

27 posted on 12/17/2003 9:39:55 PM PST by cherry
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To: Wiggins
why are people prosecuted and jailed for driving under the influences of drugs or alcohol, but not because they can't see properly, can't hear properly, and can't react properly.

both are physical limitations, and people KNOW as they grow older, that their driving skills are diminished...

driving with diminished ability due to old age ( or sickness ) is the same as driving with diminished ability due to alcohol....

one person has the growing awareness that his skills are poor, and the other gets that awarness in a few hours of drinking.....

28 posted on 12/17/2003 9:46:09 PM PST by cherry
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To: cherry
didn't he kill a child as well?......

Among the victims was a 7 month old baby boy and a 3 year old girl.

29 posted on 12/17/2003 9:49:14 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
"I'm an excellent driver..."


30 posted on 12/17/2003 10:08:59 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Bad spellers of the world untie!!)
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To: hole_n_one
Among the victims was a 7 month old baby boy and a 3 year old girl.

And you suppose it was part of his diabolical plot to do so?

You'll be old one day, if you are so unlucky. I hope it is with less complications.

31 posted on 12/17/2003 10:10:09 PM PST by Glenn (What were you thinking, Al?)
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To: Glenn
And you suppose it was part of his diabolical plot to do so?

I never suggested or implied that.

Keep putting up strawmen and I'll keep knocking them down.

32 posted on 12/17/2003 10:22:27 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
Keep putting up strawmen and I'll keep knocking them down.

Baloney. You're picking on an elderly man who shouldn't have been driving. As a friend of mine asked, "When you are three sheets to the wind, would you ever say you are incapable of driving?".

Hang this gentlemen if you like, Puritan. I'll not watch, thank you very much.

33 posted on 12/17/2003 10:34:11 PM PST by Glenn (What were you thinking, Al?)
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To: cherry
why are people prosecuted and jailed for driving under the influences of drugs or alcohol, but not because they can't see properly, can't hear properly, and can't react properly.

They aren't jailed because it's not a crime to have diminsihed driving skills due to advanced age. I agree that with you that this guy shouldn't have been driving. But you just can't start jailing elderly people because their driving skills are diminshed.

both are physical limitations, and people KNOW as they grow older, that their driving skills are diminished...

Your wrong, most elderly people do not think that their driving skills have diminished.

driving with diminished ability due to old age ( or sickness ) is the same as driving with diminished ability due to alcohol....

It might be just as dangerous but it's not a crime, and it's not intentional when the elderly person believes that there is nothing wrong with them. It's just not criminal behavior to suffer from diminshed abilities due to old age.

one person has the growing awareness that his skills are poor, and the other gets that awarness in a few hours of drinking.....

Very few old people realize that their driving skills have become diminshed. If they suffer from dementia or senility they would not be able to remember something you told them 5 minutes in the past. Anyone who operates a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol is responsible for their actions under the law. If they lose their awarness after a few hours of drinking it is not a defense for their actions.

34 posted on 12/18/2003 2:59:12 AM PST by Wiggins
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To: honeygrl
I seem to recall one whitness hearing the man say "they should've gotten out of my way" when he got out of the car. Also, when he left the hospital only a few hours later (he wasn't injured though) he was *smiling* and shaking hands with people. He didn't look the least bit remorseful.

I doubt they will get a conviction based on the fact that someone heard him say "they should of gotten out of my way" or that he was smiling and shaking hands with people. These actions could be used as an indication that this person may be senile or suffer from dementia.

35 posted on 12/18/2003 3:10:39 AM PST by Wiggins
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To: Wiggins
That wasn't the only quote they had from the scene, it's just the only one I can remember off hand. If it hadn't been for one man there, the old man would've been seriously mobbed before the police even got there. His family knew he was a bad driver for atleast 10 yrs prior. There is video footage of him running over a concrete wall and police said he had hit the back of his garage atleast 2-3 times before from the looks of it. He had no right to be behind the wheel. He knew he was a bad driver and his relatives knew too. The sooner they pass some sort of regulations for elderly drivers, the better.

And don't give me the "well teens are in accidents more" thing. Teens have to jump through hoops practically to get a license already. It's time to do the same for the elderly.
36 posted on 12/18/2003 4:32:07 AM PST by honeygrl (FreeRepublic.com "The Crack Cocaine of Conservative News Discussion")
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To: .38sw
We need stronger "Buick control" laws in this country.
37 posted on 12/18/2003 5:31:35 AM PST by Frankss
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To: hole_n_one
Took them long enough!
38 posted on 12/18/2003 6:13:04 AM PST by OldFriend ( BLESS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: Wiggins
They won't get a conviction on this one. This is case of too old to drive. I have seen instances where elderly people have become disoriented and have driven into buildings and up onto sidewalks stopping only when they hit a wall or other fixed object.

Your wrong. He should have been charged with murder and fleeing the scene of an accident. He should fry. The mob should have ripped the remorseless old man limb from limb as was their original intention. If he had been and 18 year old kid or a minority he would have been rotting in jail waiting for the decision that ultimately charged him with murder.

39 posted on 12/18/2003 7:28:38 AM PST by Smogger
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To: cherry
didn't he kill a child as well?......none of the "dreadful toll" that he supposedly has taken can match losing a loved one, out for a day at the Farmer's market....

The remorseless old man killed TWO INFANTS and was smailing and laughing about it a few hours later, [b]driver's license in hand[/b] when he was released from the police station. Your really think he would be walking around free if he was a young kid who had had only been driving a few months?

40 posted on 12/18/2003 7:32:25 AM PST by Smogger
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