Posted on 12/17/2003 5:07:31 PM PST by highlander_UW
Even on a smaller scale the empire was in trouble, with cities like Venice and Florence emerging as strong centers of trade and culture. No, I don't see a vibrant Rome doing kuch more than it did for centuries after as the seat of the church. Which wasn't a bad tourist attraction.
I'd like to split California into thirds, but I'd be in the wrong third.
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Ah ha! You're starting to catch on. And we also have devised a delusion the the basic work that sustains this nation can be done elsewhere while our basic carefree concerns can be self-amusement, Britney Spears, and cults of personality.
Another pattern I find characteristic of decline is the evolution of a cult of inherited and/or soft leadership, whether it's degenerate Roman emperors, weak kings of France, or more cultivated weak useless families such as th Kennedys, Gores, incipiently the Clintons, and the Bushs.
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It certainly can. And the principle diseasess are the evolving infantility of emperors, kings, and even elected officials: the evolving softness of people who vote; and soft indolent self-absorbtion in the general population.
Disease actually saved Rome. If the Plauge didn't decimate Attila the Hun's troops he might have taken Rome.
True enough though if the Eastern and Western empires stood together when fighting the Huns the western empire might have lasted much longer. But instead the eastern empire just paid the Huns not to attack and when the huns turned on the west, The west in order to fight them off was forced to make alliances with the Visigoths which later came back to burn Rome.
Oh no, If history is repeating itself does that mean the French are going to last but not us because they are paying off the terrorist?
It's sickening. But predictable. A civilization is effectively in decline as soon as food, water, and shelter come at very little cost to the average slob. Water comes dependably from faucets, food grows effortlessly on store shelves, human waste vanishes down the toilet, a garbage truck comes and eats the trash once a week. What with all our most essential needs met at the flick of a wall switch, it's time to speculate endlessly about Brittany, et al.
There's a fraction of one generation left in this country who know what means to endure widescale want and hardship. When the last of them dies, we'll effectively be adrift in the ocean of history, aboard a liferaft made of the most scrumptious whipped cream mankind has ever concocted.
If the east and west had united they could have fough off a lot of folks. The point I was making was the waning ability of Rome to maintain direct control. If they had united the east would still be the emerging power and only the Pope kept people looking to Rome.
Also, this had nothing to very little to do with Roman morality or lack of individual responsibility. It had to do with demographics and the inability of a city to maintain military control over other expanding populations and territories.
And that whipped cream is constantly beaten by the whisks of PC historical revisionism.
'night, all.
The Eastern part was destroyed by the Roman Catholic Church between 1198-1205 .
Fourth Crusade
Pope Innocent III
This was a great blow to the unity of the Church and played a role in the Great Schism. Innocent excommunicated the Venetians in return.
None of this should have happen and Rome lost a the Cathedral of St. Sophia Constantinople which is now a mosque.
I hope you will check out the links..
The first thing that comes to mind is "environmentalists".
"When the Vandals, Goths, Huns, and others reached Rome, many citizens actually welcomed them in the belief that anything was better than their own tax collectors and regulators."
If "Liberals" have their way, Americans will prefer the likes of Vandals, Goths, and Huns to the taxes, regulations, and oppression that "Liberals" will impose.
"That may have been a contributing factor, but it wasn't the cause by any means. I've also heard it attributed to military overextension, economic woes, the cost of the 'bread and circuses' welfare state that developed, growing military resistance in outlying areas and increased military prowess and strength of the various 'barbarians', hedonistic decadance and self absorption among the leaders resulting in almost no vision for, or respect from, the people, etc. These are all probably factors but could more realisitcally looked at as being the visible symptoms (not the cause) of a culture in decline.
A strong moral people can withstand all kinds of severe hardships and setbacks and still survive, even grow stronger, in the presence of them. An immoral people falls to whomever or whatever seeks their demise.
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