Cardinal Says U.S. Treated Saddam 'Like a Cow'

Yahoo! News / Reuters ^ | 12-16-2003 | Philip Pullella

[sitetest]

[LM's note: This thread is degenerating a bit into Catholic bashing and general flaming, and is in risk of being moved to the smokey backroom. Please stop. I've locked it once, and it has continued. Any more and it is gone. Thanks.]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A top Vatican (news - web sites) official said Tuesday he felt pity and compassion for Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) and criticized the U.S. military for showing video footage of him being treated "like a cow."

Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican's Justice and Peace department and a former papal envoy to the United Nations (news - web sites), told a news conference it would be "illusory" to think the arrest of the former Iraqi president would heal all the damage caused by a war which the Holy See opposed.

"I felt pity to see this man destroyed, (the military) looking at his teeth as if he were a cow. They could have spared us these pictures," he said.

"Seeing him like this, a man in his tragedy, despite all the heavy blame he bears, I had a sense of compassion for him," he said in answer to questions about Saddam's arrest.

Martino was referring to the videotape released by the U.S. military which showed a grubby, bearded and disheveled Saddam receiving a medical examination by a military doctor after his capture in an underground hole Saturday.

Martino was one of the Vatican officials most strongly opposed to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq (news - web sites).

"It's true that we should be happy that this (arrest) has come about because it is the watershed that was necessary... we hope that this will not have worse and other serious consequences," Martino said.

"But it is not the total solution to the problems of the Middle East," he said.

Martino said the Vatican hoped the arrest of Saddam "can contribute to promoting peace and the democratization of Iraq."

He added: "But is seems to me to be illusory to hope that this will repair the dramas and the damage of the defeat for humanity that a war always brings about."

The Vatican did not consider the war in Iraq "a just war" because it was not backed by the United Nations and because the Vatican believed more negotiations were necessary to avoid it.

Martino said the Vatican wanted an "appropriate institution" to put Saddam on trial but he did not elaborate.

U.S. forces were keeping the ousted 66-year-old dictator at a secret location for interrogation before he is put on trial in the months ahead. He could face the death penalty.

The news conference was called for Martino to present the World Day of Peace message, in which Pope John Paul (news - web sites) took a swipe at the United States for invading Iraq without the backing of the United Nations.

[Steve_Seattle]

We gave Saddam a medical exam, a shower, a shave, cleaned him up, gave him food - this is treating him like a cow? I wonder if this official expressed similar reservations when Saddam blew the heads off of dissenters?

[Askel5]

=== Justice and Peace department

Says it all, really.

[dsc]

"The children have had no peace and certainly no Justice afforded them"

That's not entirely true. It has taken far too long, I agree, but steps have been taken.

[DB]

And now I see that the Pope just promoted this guy to Cardinal in October...

[Romulus]

What can I say?

You might say that this bears repeating: "Seeing him like this, a man in his tragedy, despite all the heavy blame he bears, I had a sense of compassion for him,"

It is something our Savior himself might have said, looking at any one of us. The ability to feel compassion for even the basest criminals is one more piece of evidence of man's creation in God's image. To hold such a sentiment in contempt would be to despise our own salvation.

If we are wise, we'll bring Saddam to justice without stripping him of his human dignity -- not only because we have no right to do so but because for us to do so would be spiritually destructive to us. This doesn't mean that the Cardinal's emphasis is not misplaced (perhaps quoted out of context for the sake of creating a scandal?). Nor does it mean his regret over Saddam's humiliation isn't flat-out silly (the man's real tragedy is his spiritual destruction and mortal guilt, not having the tamer portions of his medical exam broadcast on TV ).

I see a great many pharisees on this thread giving thanks to God they they are not sinners like Saddam. It's perfectly possible to condemn Saddam's crimes and to rejoice at his capture and imminent trial, sentencing, and execution (as I do), without compromising the Vatican's original argument, that the war was unnecessary. The Cardinal's words were injudicious, but no more so than what I read around here every day.

[dsc]

Moooo.

Can I have a free medical exam, shower, shave, clothing, and food?

[dsc]

PORTIA

Then must the Jew be merciful.

SHYLOCK

On what compulsion must I? tell me that.

PORTIA

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

W. Shkspr

[chatham]

Right now the Church has absolutely no Moral Credability and will remain so for the next few Decades.
They have no one to blame but themselves.
I don't think the extent of the damage has been nor can it be measured by anyone.
Look at the Poynter.org Site which follows the continuing criminality within the church every day, it seems to have no end.
It is truly very sad, and breathtaking that such Secrecy and Betrayal could be maintained over such a long time.
It could only have happened through a well directed conspiracy on all levels, Top to Bottom.

[Jaded]

Well said.

[B Knotts]

While I can almost understand why Cardinal Martino...almost, but not quite...said what he did, I think there are times when it is much better to just keep one's mouth shut, rather than give the wrong impression to millions of people about one's true loyalties and feelings, while bringing scandal to the Church.

I emailed the Cardinal and asked him for a clarification. I'm not expecting a response... :-)

Certainly the Cardinal can find a more sympathetic character than Saddam for whom to seek "peace and justice."

While there were legitimate arguments against going to war with Iraq, that discussion is long over, and there is no point whatsoever in rehashing it now. We must deal with reality, and with the situation we now face, which is how to administer justice to a man who is the cruelest butcher of our time.

[Major_Risktaker]

goombah

Sinkspur what does goombah mean?

[Trytophan Man]

In the city where I live, two soldiers who died in Iraq were buried recently. They were both ROMAN CATHOLIC.

[chatham]

Do you really believe after the crimes were committed and kept secret for decades, The men who act (In persona Christe),can sweep away the damage done to CHILDREN by reluctantly giving so many pieces of Silver will wash away the Horror, and Memories of Psychological and Physical abuse.
Most of the Cardinals and Bishops are still in Place and a great many of the abusers are in retirement homes paid for by the contributiuons of the Faithful.
I certainly don't see any Justice in the acts of the Hierarchs.
"Cardinal" Law still has his position and travels all over the world at the expense of the People, Some Justice !!

[cajungirl]

I agree with your post. It was unwise of him to say what he said prior to acknowledging the crimes of Saddam. The problem is that for many the compassion for Hussein in his humiliation would preclude the rightful demand for justice in this case. It was not clear if this Cardinal gave any weight to the people killed and tortured by this man. If a rabid dog is sufferiing, I feel compassion for him , but I still want him dead. I have to admit that when I saw the pics of the exam, I knew it was an attempt to publicly humiliate him and I felt a moment of compassion, I do for any human who is humiliated, struck down. But it was a moment and it was succeeded by a strong wish that he meet his end after a public trial. The Cardinal may have felt that but it was pure vanity, moral vanity on his part to parade his compassion publicly whilst ignoring the crimes this man committed.

[tomahawk]

Saddam deserves no better than what Mussolini got. Talk about humiliation. Is the Cardinal upset over what happened to Il Duce?

[chatham]

The time for talking on the part of "Clerics" is long ,Long overdue. In a closed and tight organization like the Priesthood I seriously doubt there were manby who did not know these horrors were going on.
They Said Nothing! and the ones who did talk were drummed out by their bishops who were involved.
The Dallas Morning did a story where 2/3 of the Bishops were involved in the shifting of bad priests.
It is now Believed over 20,000 children were victims in the U.S.A.

[CWW]

Give me a break. Like politicians, Cardinal's can gradually slide down the scale of liberlism and get caught up in the social justice quagmire. The fact that JP II appointed him in 1980 does not mean that the Cardinal held those views in 1980. Think Justice Blackmon or Earl Warren.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

*putting hands aside cheeks*

My goodness! What a surprise!

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Gosh golly.