IBM to Export Highly Paid Jobs to India, China

Yahoo News ^ | Dec 15, 2003 | William M. Bulkeley and Peter Fritsch

[The Old Hoosier]

Nice posts. I especially like your arguments.

[The Old Hoosier]

You're right--the brush was broad. I was thinking mostly of Saudi.

[The Old Hoosier]

You said wealth is zero sum. And from what you keep writing, it's clear you don't understand the argument. And you can't spell either.

[Cronos]

ANd you're quite right on the Saud A part -- the 'royal' family has robbed most of the loot and left a large percentage of the population is poverty. Amazing!

[Paul Ross]

You're welcome. All that is needful is to point to and highlight the spurious assertion...and those with intelligence can discern the error.

[BMiles2112]

and those with intelligence can discern the error.
It seems I'm not intelligent. Could you explain how the statement is "false".

[Golden Buffalo]

To address the question of how are we supposed to buy thier products if we are unemployed - transnational corporation really don't care. Nor should they. Their market is global. To use the Henry ford/Model T example, I suspect these companies are looking to the future and have decided like Henry Ford to make sure the people of India and Pakistan have the money to buy thier products. They probably don't have computers yet and we do. Plus aging populations only spend money on two things: investments and laxatives. If you aren't in those businesses you need to find new markets. People need to accept that excessive regulation and a desire for socalized government benefits have made America an undesireable location for commerce. It is just going to take a while for prople to accept this new reality. They will eventually and then the changes will be dramatic and sweeping. That is the way democracy works, it is reactive not proactive.

[The Old Hoosier]

IBM is the 'premium' pc company, so no one will really be saving any money buying pc's from IBM, ever.

First of all, you can't be saying that no one has any reason to buy from IBM. But at any rate, let's expand the argument, as others on this thread have, since HP and others are doing the same thing sending jobs overseas.

You have no way of knowing that.

I'm going on the word of an IBM worker, who is not the first to say the same thing about the severance package--again, see adam_az's post way up above. He got laid off from IBM and did pretty well for himself as a result.

You're always going to have tech export problems, but again, we're talking about PC's here, not missile or satellite technology. If we want to keep this hardware and expertise out of Chinese hands, we're already too late.

I just don't see the problem here.

[The Old Hoosier]

What you meant to say is, "I don't have an argument."

[Mamzelle]

How about taxing direct transfers of cash out of the US into Mexico, by people who are here earning money? That's one billion total a month. At ten percent, we could get a hundred mil in revenue...

You know, I just bought a dropdead fabulous television for under two hundred dollars. Wow. Why shouldn't it cost two hundred and fifty? And new outfits for so much less (in inflation adjusted dollars) less than I used to pay for them when they were made in the US...

Now, how great is that? But I do wonder what the heck my kids are going to do for a living.

We are going to be the best-dressed and best-entertained poor people in the world...

[Mamzelle]

re: To address the question of how are we supposed to buy thier products if we are unemployed - transnational corporation really don't care. Nor should they. Their market is global.)))

So why should we care about them--you've made an argument for tariffs.

And don't leave lawyering out of the competitiveness problem. I'd say that's as bad as regulation and FAR worse than the present taxation.

[Paul Ross]

It seems I'm not intelligent. Could you explain

Maybe. Depending on whether you are teachable. If not, then no. When the author sweepingly claims with a broad brush that ALL consumers and businesses are 'helped' by the slave labor, it should be apparent that he overstates...ignoring those who are dislocated, unemployed and subemployed as a direct result, and U.S. manufacturing and services companies that are forced under or are co-opted by the foreign-product tide...won't be in a position to benefit from any lower prices. They won't be buying much of anything...U.S. made that is. The Trade Deficit has now mushroomed to an unsustainable point yet is already scheduled to double. We are approaching a critical nexus, a 'perfect storm' when the U.S. dollar collapses, and simultaneously inflation explodes. The bullish economic forecasts besides, actual individual purchasing power is continuing to slide precipitously. (Reflecting the lower incomes).

The studies to date suggest that 14 million more U.S. service jobs are exportable to outsourcing...and likely to go in the next 6-10 years. What do you think the collateral economic 'negative multiplier' will be if those jobs are made foreign?

[Paul Ross]

What you meant to say is you can't defend the blatant weakness of your factual errors.

[BMiles2112]

When the author sweepingly claims with a broad brush that ALL consumers and businesses are 'helped' by the slave labor, it should be apparent that he overstates...
I think the obvious implication of that statement is that it helps everyone by lowering the costs for everyone. Of course there are some that will lose their jobs because of it. That will happen no matter what IBM did. If they kept these jobs here, they would be less competitive, and would likely have to lay off workers here anyway.
I think it would be accurate to say that everyone in the US would benefit if we went to a flat sales tax and got rid of the entire income tax system. The effects would vary with each individual, but the overall effect would be positive. Accountants would be hurt for sure, but they would also benefit from the simplified system.

The studies to date suggest that 14 million more U.S. service jobs are exportable to outsourcing...and likely to go in the next 6-10 years.
If this is true, it only means that these US workers are not competitive with their foreign counterparts. Much of that is due to regulatory and tax burden on domestic industries, and your anger and frustration should be directed at this problem, not at IBM. It's in their best interest to pay as little as possible for the maximum benefit.

[The Old Hoosier]

Alleged factual errors, none of which have been contested by you.

[Golden Buffalo]

I could not agree more. Finding less costly means to resolve civil disputes is essential but I am afraid the answer will not ever be found in the legal community; the fear the fate of the computer programmers. The answer will be found in the initiative process on a state by state basis. The first state to do it will reap the benefits and the others will need to follow or their respective economies will be left in the cold. Crafting such a model initiative is probably a pretty good idea. Does anyone know if it has been attempted?

[psywarrior]

The majority of our country lives with propaganda, china is not as we know it. And yes you can tell a lot about a country when you fly over it, unless you travel by rockets.

A few documentaries doesn't mean that China lives in poverty. It would be like saying all white wives sleep cheat with black men

[Jim Cane]

Now, how great is that? But I do wonder what the heck my kids are going to do for a living.

We are going to be the best-dressed and best-entertained poor people in the world...

Who can no longer pay their mortgages, fuel bills, medical bills, insurance bills or legal bills for when they are foreclosed upon and arrested for loitering outside the company store.

[Paul Ross]

All of which have been contested, and you evade. Prove 'All' benefit.

[Paul Ross]

Much of that is due to regulatory and tax burden on domestic industries

And much of it isn't. It is the national cost of living...even sans regulation and taxes, that you are decrying. You would beggar your fellow American, and begrudge their living in anything other than a quonset hut.