Social Security for Mexicans closer to reality (Millions of immigrants to collect benefits)

www.wnd.com ^ | December 11, 2003 | WorldNetDaily

[VU4G10]

The prospect of millions of Mexicans receiving United States Social Security checks is moving closer to reality.

The Gannett News Service reports U.S. and Mexican officials are discussing a "totalization" agreement that would transfer hundreds of millions of dollars in payments south of the border. The plan would allow documented and undocumented immigrants to return home but still collect U.S. benefits.

WorldNetDaily reported the idea to merge both countries' Social Security systems was pushed late last year by Mexican President Vincente Fox as payback from President George W. Bush for failing to secure major new immigration reforms beneficial to Mexico City.

"When the legalization talks began going nowhere, the Mexicans began focusing on this," Maria Blanco, national senior counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, told the Washington Post.

Excerpts from a U.S. Social Security Administration memo dated December 2002 said the agreement "is expected to move forward at an accelerated pace."

The pact is the latest and largest attempt by Washington and Mexico City to ensure that people from one country working in another aren't taxed twice for Social Security benefits. In the first year alone, the agreement is expected to trigger 37,000 claims from Mexicans working in the U.S. legally who paid Social Security taxes but haven't been able to claim their checks, said the memo, prepared by Ted Girdner, the Social Security Administration's assistant associate commissioner for international operations.

Supporters say the proposal would improve the daily lives of Mexican citizens, many of whom are still trapped in poverty a decade after the North American Free Trade Agreement promised prosperity to the nation's 103.4 million people.

"Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy," Katherine Culliton, an attorney with the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, told Gannett. "It's only fair they get back a benefit they deserve that will keep them from dying in poverty."

Critics, as well as some on the Bush administration economic team, worry that adding more beneficiaries would burden an already ailing system, just as American baby boomers begin to retire.

Currently, around 94,000 beneficiaries living abroad have been brought into the U.S. system under the auspices of about 20 international treaties designed to help Americans sent abroad by their employers signed since 1977. The accords are mostly with European countries, but also include Canada and South Korea.

Of the $408 billion distributed in Social Security benefits in 2001, according to Gannett, the federal government paid $173 million to about 89,000 foreigners living abroad.

Opponents contend the number of Mexican beneficiaries added to the fold would dwarf the total numbers from the 20 other countries. One estimate puts the number of Mexicans coming into the system at around 164,000 in the first five years.

Social Security Administration officials estimate about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. By 2050, the number is predicted to swell to 300,000 Mexicans collecting $650 million in benefits a year.

But that number doesn't include the potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants – numbering about 5 million, according to federal estimates – a recent General Accounting Office report pointed out.

Accounting for illegals, the agreement could cost U.S. taxpayers $750 million within five years of implementation.

Steven A. Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, says if Mexicans receive the $8,100 in benefits that Mexican-born retirees in the U.S. currently get, the total expenditure for the program will easily surpass $1 billion annually.

Beyond the cost, Republican lawmakers worry the proposal will fuel further illegal immigration.

"Talk about an incentive for illegal immigration," Gannett quotes Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, as saying. "How many more would break the law to come to this country if promised U.S. government paychecks for life?"

Any "totalization" agreement ultimately reached must be approved by Congress.

[Paul C. Jesup]

I'm confused. If I come into your house and steal money from you, does that mean I get to keep it?

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!

You just don't get, I am against government social programs, or should I say ponzi schemes.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Without immirants, the SSA would be bankrupt now.

That is pure BS, illegal immigrant take more out of the system than what they put into it.

Tell me, are you a MECHA member?

[hedgetrimmer]

Well I learned something yesterday. These congressman who will support social security payments to Mexico, should have their campaign and personal finances checked for investments in and by Citibank, Wells Fargo and Bank of America.

These three banks want this measure to pass, and in fact want the matricular consular phony IDs to be used by the illegals so that they can handle the illegals money. You know that nearly $30 billion a year is sent out of country by the illegals and these banks profit by allowing the illegals to use phony IDs to bank with them. They will make even more money if social security is sent to Mexico.

The dept of homeland security and the national security office want the borders closed.

The state department and the department of the treasury (along with the aforementioned banks) want it erased. Guess who is winning?

I would start directing letters to the state department the dept of the treasury requesting they change their policy. I would send letters to congress and the president demanding that America reform the state department and the department of the treasury now! They are not acting in the best interests of our country.

I would also write letters to the editor and give a few black eyes to these banks so that people know who is behind the lack of border defense.

This information came from a congressman on a talk show yesterday.

[cyborg]

Actually the people who say that illegal aliens should get SSI don't get it. I wasn't clear though. I meant it in a way that if I came and stole money from your wallet, do I get to keep it somewhere down the line? I am personally dismayed at the amount of trial baloons being launched on behalf of Vicente Fox, who I consider to be an economic, and socio-political Saddam Hussein-type.

[cyborg]

Border states will agree with you. Actually the reason why SSI hasn't gone bankrupt is because a lot of funds go unclaimed by citizens and DOCUMENTED LEGAL SS card holders.

[cyborg]

Which congressman? Tancredo?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Paulie is making the argument that one is not obligated to pay back borrowed money if he can't afford the monthly payments.

These people came here legally, worked legally, paid taxes, paid into the SSA, and moved elsewhere to live out their life after retirement. They paid taxes for services received, and into the SSA with the same understanding we all have of this system, that we will receive a certain monthly payment from the government after retirement.

This is their money, they are entitled to it, and more importantly, the government is obligated to send it to them. There is rampant SS fraud here, and I don't hear anyone arguing that we should not receive our due because of that.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Actually the people who say that illegal aliens should get SSI don't get it.

In post 95, I was stating how it would be a bad idea to give (illegal) immigrants Social Sercurity. But you immediately flame me for it.

If this is your opinion, then you should apologize to me for wrongly flaming me for the exact samething you believe and agree on.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Stop talking to yourself MECHA member, Social Sercurity, like all social programs are pay as you go.

[cyborg]

I agree. I do not think that illegal aliens have rights to ill begotten money which is what I thought was being discussed. There are American citizens who move to Israel,etc. but collect SSI. That's not wrong. They paid into the system.

[cyborg]

Who? Me? I was not flaming you. Please read...

Posted by cyborg to Paul C. Jesup
On News/Activism 12/15/2003 9:30:00 PM PST #164 of 170

Actually the people who say that illegal aliens should get SSI don't get it. I wasn't clear though. I meant it in a way that if I came and stole money from your wallet, do I get to keep it somewhere down the line? I am personally dismayed at the amount of trial baloons being launched on behalf of Vicente Fox, who I consider to be an economic, and socio-political Saddam Hussein-type

[MissAmericanPie]

I like when you tempt me.;o)

[hedgetrimmer]

It was Congressman Tancredo.

[cyborg]

Figures. He's about the only one who knows (or bothers to find out) such things.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Tell me, are you a MECHA member?"

No, just better informed than you.

This country stands at the onset of the mother of all retirement waves, the baby boomers just began to take up gardening and give up the daily grind.

This coupled with the fact that we are reproducing less than ever in the history of the nation, is severely lowering our worker to retiree ratio, so badly so that the government estimates that in the year 2050, we will be able to absorb the entire working age population of Mexico into the US, and still not match the worker to retiree ration in pre-millenium America.

You can spend some time reading here for verification if you wish.

As far as taking more out of the system than they put in, is dependent of the age they entered into the country as a legal immigrant.

Note: as the number of children in the nation diminish, classrooms will empty, and since it does not cost more money to educate the child of an immigrant than the child of a native-born citizen, the actual cost differential would be nominal. On the other hand, if we are going to allow immigrants to come and stay, then it is in the best interest of the nation to make certain that the children receive some sort of an education. Additionally, the cost of keeping these kids in school, would be significantly less than either the ensuing increase in crime and property loss as a result of their having nothing to do all day, plus the cost of policing them.

Europe is going through the very same thing, the most visible difference being that they are sustaining growth by introducing Muslims, and we are introducing mostly Hispanics. The reasons should be obvious, and given a choice, I would have picked Hispanics any way.

Interesting side note, I read recently some data on the growth of Islam in the West, and the figures told an interesting story: there were two places where it had negative growth figures...Central and South America.

[cyborg]

Mecha? Those are fighting words. That's like calling someone a KKK.

SSI is in the trouble it is now because people are living longer, people are lazier than ever. I think personal medical/retirement accounts are better.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You seem to forget one important fact, illegal immigrant Mexicans are NOT loyal to the U.S., what makes you think they will pays the taxes, when they are already getting the benefits without paying taxes, they are part of the welfare class, not the taxpayer class. This leaves the citizens of the U.S. to paid for everyone else's freeride and since Gen X and Y have been getting the shaft for the past 20 years, things will come to a head and there will be a revolt.

[american spirit]

Absolutely they have zero rights....they do not have status as an American or naturalized citizen. They've broken federal law to begin with by even being here on our soil so I fail to see how they have standing in the courts. However, I see one possible scenario that's being utilized by the ill-informed, de-construct America open borders crowd, namely the invocation of some the UN's recent declarations of human rights (don't remember the exact terminology) which could very well be the driving force behind all this illegal immigration. As time goes on and I see the millions of people who've latched themselves on to our welfare system who are not even American citizens, at a huge expense for us and our children I believe that our participation in various UN treaties has cost us our sovereignty in issues such as illegal immigration and we could very well have arrived at a point where UN "dictates" now supersede our internal US laws.

[american spirit]

Agree with what you say and that sad part is now that the middle class is slowly eliminated by ill-concieved trade and immigration schemes we're turning into a nation of two classes of people.....producers & predators (parasites might be too strong). In the category of producers I would include a high % of immigrants who've come here, respect our heritage, work and pay taxes and contribute to our society. These are the kinds of folks I would be proud to call my neighbor....on the other hand we're now having to deal with those predators that care nothing about this country and now in a postion to extract gov't benefits WHERE NONE ARE DESERVED! Our job now is to draw the line in the sand otherwise our children will be relegated to a hellish future.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"You seem to forget one important fact, illegal immigrant Mexicans are NOT loyal to the U.S."

Neither are a vast number of native-born, what's your point?

"...what makes you think they will pays the taxes, when they are already getting the benefits without paying taxes..."

What gives you the idea that paying taxes is an option in this country?

Try buying something at Sears and tell them that you'd rather not pay taxes.

As usual on this thread, you're making absolutely no sense.