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Survey: Germans say fed up about Holocaust guilt [25% -Muslims should not be allowed into Germany]
Haaretz ^ | 12/11/2003 | Reuters

Posted on 12/11/2003 2:47:09 PM PST by yonif

BERLIN - Almost 70 percent of Germans say they are annoyed at being held responsible for the Holocaust and many believe Jews use Germany's Nazi past to their advantage, a major German university survey showed on Thursday.

The survey by Bielefeld University showed 69.9 percent were irritated at still being held responsible today for crimes against Jews.

A quarter of 3,000 people surveyed also agreed with the statement: "Many Jews try to use Germany's Third Reich past to their advantage and want to make Germans pay for it". A further 30 percent said there was "some truth" to the statement.

Almost two thirds said they believed too many foreigners live in Germany, while 30 percent said foreigners should be sent home when jobs are scarce.

Some 60 years after the end of World War Two, Germany is still haunted by guilt and it has spent decades debating how to atone for the six million Jews murdered by the Nazis.

Endorsing the survey, German parliamentary president Wolfgang Thierse said he understood why so many wanted to shed the guilt for what happened before they were born. He said the survey did not prove there is widespread anti-Jewish sentiment.

"It's a surprising figure at first. But when you think about the thought process behind it, it is understandable," he said. "The people alive now are not the perpetrators."^ There was a new distinction between guilt and a responsibility to stop history repeating itself, he said.

The authors of the survey said they found Germans who are worried about security threats and losing their jobs had become more hostile to Jews, Muslims and immigrants.

"Particularly with regard to the jobs market, foreigners are increasingly seen as a burden," said Wilhelm Heitmeyer from Bielefeld University, whose study is set to run to 2032.

One in 10 German workers is unemployed and more than a quarter of the survey's respondents said they expected to lose their job in the next five years. People found life increasingly hard and were looking for scapegoats, said Heitmeyer.

Some 7.3 million foreigners live in Germany, which has a population of just over 82 million. Three million of those foreigners are Muslims, mostly of Turkish origin.

The 2003 survey, the second to be carried out by the university, introduced some new questions but also repeated ones from 2002. The comparison showed xenophobia, homophobia, anti-Semitism and sexism had all risen slightly.

Thierse said the results were "not grounds for hysteria". "I have looked at studies in other countries and my impression is this problem is not specifically German, in a European context we are no different to other countries."

New questions in the survey also highlighted hostility towards Germany's three million Muslims and the authors warned attacks by Islamist groups could lead to more tension.

Indeed, more than a quarter of respondents said Muslims should not be allowed to come to Germany.

Basel Allozy from the German-Muslim integration group Inssan said the figure was not surprising. "It's high time people start dealing with anti-Islamism. The expression needs to become an everyday one because the problem has existed for a while.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: germany; holocaust; survey; wwii
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To: Brian Allen
,,, with the rate of tax I'm paying, I'm a slave.

Anyhow, Germans have this psychological thing hanging over them. Most of them weren't even alive when the Holocaust occured, but like them, I certainly wouldn't want that happening in my country at any stage of it's history.

21 posted on 12/11/2003 5:36:17 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: yonif
I don't know any Jew who blames contemporary Germans for the Holocaust. A majority of Germans are once again indulging in self-pity and looking for an excuse to badmouth Jews.
22 posted on 12/11/2003 7:08:39 PM PST by Holden Magroin
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To: yonif
Almost 70 percent of Germans say they are annoyed at being held responsible for the Holocaust

It would be interesting to see just who they do hold responsible.

23 posted on 12/11/2003 7:19:36 PM PST by weegee (No blood for ratings! This means YOU AOL-Time-Warner-Turner-CNN)
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To: weegee
It would be interesting to see just who they do hold responsible

How about the people who actually committed the crimes?

Please explain why a 30 year old German should be held accountable, morally and financially, for acts done before he was born

24 posted on 12/11/2003 7:25:29 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: WackyKat
What about what we did to the Indians?--if anything it was worse than the fate faced by Blacks. Guilt! What about that we did to the Japanese in WW II and what about the agent Orange sprayed on the poor people of VietNam? There is guilt enough for all.
25 posted on 12/11/2003 7:36:00 PM PST by Hollywoodghost (Let he who would be free strike the first blow)
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To: yonif
Almost 70 percent of Germans say they are annoyed at being held responsible for the Holocaust and many believe Jews use Germany's Nazi past to their advantage, a major German university survey showed on Thursday.

That may be, but they killed a whole bunch of Jews, I mean a whole lot.... not to mention the Russians and Christians.

26 posted on 12/11/2003 7:37:51 PM PST by Porterville (No communist or french)
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To: witnesstothefall
"But wounds do heal with time, even the deepest."

I don't agree. Two millenia from now, African-Americans (yes, they will still call themselves by something like that) will be screaming and protesting for Whitey to pay them big rep'rations.
27 posted on 12/11/2003 7:42:47 PM PST by Chu Gary
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To: Bob Mc
"The victims of slavery are all dead."

Well, those in the U.S. are but there are plenty of black Africans who are slaves to other blacks in Africa, very little has changed in the past few hundred years. I guess Jesse has just not gotten around to fixing that little problem. Besides, no one to extort money from.
28 posted on 12/11/2003 7:49:10 PM PST by Chu Gary
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To: quadrant
Remember: guilt, like salvation, is individual. No society is going to allow itself to be labeled as criminal once thouse guilty of crimes are dead.

If the United States continues to pay the "price for slavery", it is because Americans allow themselves to be saddled with something for which they are innocent.

Wounds heal when the wounded desire healing above all else, and when they realize that keeping a wound alive injures no one but themselves.

Remember, psychobabble sometimes works on individuals, but seldom or never on nations.

29 posted on 12/11/2003 7:49:26 PM PST by witnesstothefall
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To: yonif; Michael81Dus
Hey Germany - get used to it. You are responsible for the Holocaust. Wishing it will go away will not make it so.
30 posted on 12/11/2003 7:49:53 PM PST by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: Chu Gary
I don't agree. Two millenia from now, African-Americans (yes, they will still call themselves by something like that) will be screaming and protesting for Whitey to pay them big rep'rations.

Really interesting theory. What's your basis for it? The reparations movement here is rather new, and not picking up any steam in the mainstream far as I can tell. Perhaps your theory, and the way you try to ape a black accent, says more about you than blacks?

31 posted on 12/11/2003 7:53:57 PM PST by witnesstothefall
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To: WackyKat
Please explain why a 30 year old German should be held accountable, morally and financially, for acts done before he was born

Why are we held responsible for what we did to the Indians? What we did was bad. What the Germans did was worse. Much worse. Too may Jewish lives have been affected -- why must their German counterparts be allowed a clean slate?

32 posted on 12/11/2003 7:54:16 PM PST by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: thoughtomator
I agree... truth is, I can understand the "fed up with Holocaust guilt" feelings among young Germans. I'm 24, if I was German instead of American, I'd be sick of hearing over and over again how I'm responsible for the deaths of 6 million... hell, I wasn't even born at the time!

I also think, as a Jew, that the American Jewish community is too dependant on the Holocaust as a source of Jewish identity. Far too much of what parents teach their children about "what it means to be Jewish" revolves around death and destruction and genocide-- rather than Jewish culture, Jewish religion, Jewish history pre-1932 etc. It's quite sad actually.

33 posted on 12/11/2003 7:58:22 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew
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To: Chu Gary
Two millenia the races will have breeded with each other so much that there no longer will be identifiable ethnic groups-- with the exception of small isolationist communities (i.e. groups like the Amish).
34 posted on 12/11/2003 8:01:49 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew
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To: xzins
Maybe if they gave the Jews a 10% discount on all Mercedes-Benz and BMW purchases, all would be forgiven.
35 posted on 12/11/2003 8:02:53 PM PST by Edmund Burke
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To: Hollywoodghost
What did we do to the Japanese that they didn't have coming?
36 posted on 12/11/2003 8:04:43 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Martin wants me to change my tagline, and I do everything Martin says.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew
I'd be sick of hearing over and over again how I'm responsible for the deaths of 6 million... hell, I wasn't even born at the time!

My only wish is they would raise the voting age.

I guess you just don't get it. The Holocaust is one of those little facts that makes every one want to squirm. "It wasn't me".... meanwhile, pump money into causes like Palestinian terrorism thinking your guilt is assuaged. The problem NEVER went away - it was just TRANSFERRED. And cowards like yourself, by allowing a transference are conducting a second holocaust.

37 posted on 12/11/2003 8:05:13 PM PST by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: ChicagoHebrew
The ones who are first to shove the Holocaust in your face are also the first ones to make excuses for the ongoing holocaust of abortion. It's not the history, but the hypocrisy that has worn out its welcome.
38 posted on 12/11/2003 8:07:38 PM PST by thoughtomator (The U.N. is a terrorist organization)
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
Why are we held responsible for what we did to the Indians? What we did was bad. What the Germans did was worse. Much worse. Too may Jewish lives have been affected -- why must their German counterparts be allowed a clean slate?

The Nazis killed millions more Christians than they did Jews.Did you not know that? Or do you just not care about dead Christians? I don't see anyone paying their descendants reparations.

The Bolsheviks and Stalinists killed far more people that the Nazis did. There's no museum in the United States to commemorate those slaughters and no movement still trying to get reparations for it

39 posted on 12/11/2003 8:17:49 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: WackyKat
Germans who did perpetrate these crimes and surviving victims both are still alive. We are still with the first generation of the Holocaust.
40 posted on 12/11/2003 8:24:01 PM PST by weegee (No blood for ratings! This means YOU AOL-Time-Warner-Turner-CNN)
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