Enough With The Neocon And Paleocon Carping—I'll Stand With George W. Bush In 2004

Toogood Reports ^ | Thursday, December 11, 2003; 12:01 a.m. EST | Bernard Chapin

[tortoise]

Any other vote than Republican is a wasted vote.

Not really, as that is a wasted vote too.

I rarely vote against candidates, only for candidates, and if there are no candidates to vote for, I stay home. A great many Republicans are alien critters with an "R" next to their name; it isn't the "R" that makes them Republican.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

He said it again Friday night/Monica Crowley/WABC

[FairOpinion]

Which Dem candidate do you think is better than Bush, then?

[Fledermaus]

Any other vote than Republican is a wasted vote.

What a joke and a very narrow minded point of view.

Have you ever thought that maybe taking that stupidity and investing it? You'd make a fortune.

But I guess you also have all kinds of intelligent comments about the Whigs, the Progressives, the Bull Moosers, the old Democrat-Republicans like Jefferson, the Know-Nothings, the Federalist, etc. They all had some success at different points in time.

And your genius Republicans like Nixon, Ford and Bush 41 created more socialistic programs and worthless bureaucracies than even Jimmy Carter couldn't. But I guess you love them now.

[Fledermaus]

Based on positions, Lieberman or Gephardt are viable candidates. I won't vote for them, but they are not raving lunatics and will move back to the sane center if they won the nomination.

Even GOP candidates go nuts in primaries. Remember John McCain fighting to "get out of the Death Star"? What was he smoking?

Personally, I supported Forbes in 1996 and Keyes in 2000, they had principles and stood up for them.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Then let's just give this country back to the Democrats. I'm sure you'll love the changes they'll make.

Look at the Socialist countries like Canada, France, etc...over 50 % of their income goes to a government they have very little control over. They are all in dire financial trouble.

You certainly won't have to nit-pick over the First Amendment, because the "Living Breathing" document you call the Constitution will become so lobotomized under their "care" you won't recognize it. Don't you realise what it will be like?

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"If Republicans keep losing elections because their base keeps crumbling out"

No. In 2002, Republicans were given a clear mandate to accomplish conservative goals. It was a rebuke of Dim socialism.

And they promptly flushed it down the toilet.

Bush and Congress are making a deliberate move towards Socialism. A fool can see it. And Bushbots support socialism and display totalitarian thinking on FR now.

Compassionate conservatism is Bushspeak for throwing away money.

[nopardons]

The BULL MOOSE Party was an ego trip of Teddy's and never won a thing.

The KNOW-NOTHINGS were less of a party than a movement, much like the Luddites. They never won anything either.

Progressives ? Define that term, as it's been used by American Communists of all stripes ( but mostly the Stalinists ), and in conjunction with the Dem party; just not alone.

Fringe parties, with the exception of the GOP, which was birthed by the Whigs, who died out do to massive party jumping ( which is NOT going to happen , party jumping in huge numbers, I mean , for any of the so-called " conservative " fringe parties of today and NO, you may not borrow my crystal ball ! ), are just that...fringe and only serve as spoilers.

So no, it is hardly " narrow minded ", when anyone here here states the bleeding obvious, which is that America has two, and ONLY two political parties, whose candidates can capture the presidency.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"Look at the Socialist countries like Canada, France, etc..."

It's happening to us, against our will, and YOU support it and cheer it.

No thanks. I don't want it.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Then what is your option?

About all you can do is move to another country that is as extreme right as you are.

Let me see....where would that be....Iran? maybe, I'm sure you would like it there. Or there is Libya, etc...

[Smokin' Joe]

I always thought the neocon/paleocon thing was just another way for the parth of division to cause havoc in the conservative ranks. After all, the media created these labels, and they are liberals for the most part, and have everything to gain.

[Fledermaus]

So no, it is hardly " narrow minded ", when anyone here here states the bleeding obvious, which is that America has two, and ONLY two political parties, whose candidates can capture the presidency.

I don't subscribe to that premise any longer. I know, from the local level up, it can be changed. Maybe a Common Sense Party that isn't full of spineless politicians and bureaucrats.

When was the last time a Republican did something that wasn't the status quo when it comes to government spending and programs? They continue to perpetuate the same base-line budgeting BS the Dems invented. They use the same language, the same ideals and the same machinations the Dems and they created in our lesiglatures.

When has a GOP controlled Congress or state legislature acually CUT, not decreased in growth, but CUT or elimintated agencies.

Have you ever seen a true P&L statement for an agency? Why can't we get REAL numbers about how much of their budgets they spend on payroll and benefits? Overhead? Why are they hardly ever, if at all, audited from outside sources? Why don't they fire or prosecute the bureaucrats that steal, waste, misuse, misallocate, lose, or just plain are too stupid to know where the money goes? Why do they still hire when the private sector is cutting jobs? Why do they still use the positions as handouts to cronies, supporters, family members? Show me ONE Republican controlled state, governor, or legislature that has ever even tried.

When are the conservatives and other GOP supporters going to get together with their voting block and DEMAND they be held accountable? When is the waste, fraud and abuse of OUR money going to stop while politicians of BOTH of your TWO PARTIES use that money to buy themselves perks and act like royals?

When is enough enough?

Let me give you a very current example: the Republicans in the minority in the TN legislature finally force an audit of TennCare (the only program in the country based on HillaryCare of 1993 and shoved down our throats by Dems) for an outside auditing firm. As usual, it can't be audited. NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE MONEY GOES! They can't even provide simple answers as to HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ON THE PROGRAM or provide a database of their ages, income, addresses (the "law" says PO boxes aren't valid but over 50,000 have PO boxes listed as addresses). You think that would be a great start to stopping a bleeding money pit.

But NO. Even the GOP in the legislature are trying to water down the report and not implement anything of consequence a 14 year old girl running a lemonade stand would understand.

So please don't preach to me about lesser of two evils and that the Dems are WORSE. It's not proven and it never will be when bureaucracy rules the day. My personal philosophy is to just kill ALL the evil regardless of party - let God sort them out.

How many stupid local news programs about the waste and abuse do we still have to watch before anyone wakes up? They won't if they, as almost 55% of voters do, believe it makes no difference. And nothing you or any other person can tell them is going to change their mind. Sure, there is the cliche of "people want services but don't want to pay for them" BS. And that's what it is...BS and a cop out. People will respond when you explain it to them. People don't want big healthcare programs that pay illegal aliens, are held unaccountable and give services to those that don't deserve them. They just don't see the DNC or the RNC as a difference. They, correctly, see it as a blend of the same thing only ran by different special interest.

And until that attitude is addressed by actually STOPPING the bureaucratic mess, we'll play this game forever. I can write you a novel on this, but what good will it do? You'll still come back and say, "but my man is better than them and he's not as bad".

It's like a choice between starving to death or freezing to death...I guess I'd rather freeze to death because it's quicker. GRRRRRRRR, I'm sick of this argument. There is almost no one left to make it and care about it. I don't give a Kerry f'ing deal WHO is in charge when NOTHING, and I truly mean NOTHING changes. We can vote for Ronald Reagan clones until we die, but what good will that do if the system isn't changed? Have you or anyone else around here actually bothered to READ the bills they pass? It's gobbeldygook language that does nothing but replace code in the bureaurcratic monolith: "Part A of subsection B,II,w,a, section IV replaces the word "man" with the word "person".

This is no way to run a country. If the private sector is like this, and some are, they fail.

But not government where it is written in stone that if a department doesn't increase it's budget on a yearly basis it's being "cut" and that is "wrong".

And what has Bush done to remedy this nigthmare? Nothing...not a damn thing. He perpetuates it with as do all "movers and shakers" controlling our lives in Washington. He pretends to be a straight forward man but, even like Reagan, can't stop or control the forces of an every increasing level of bureaucracy of unelected "civil" servants that do what they please and often against the President. Just look at the State Dept and the CIA.

Oh, but I'm being unrealistic I'm told, I have to learn to play the game on the margins, I have to accept and conform.

Well I'll put this to an end once and for all: I don't conform. I don't want to work within our "system". I don't give a flying John Kerry F about government employees and their supposed hard work. If I became President I'd fire EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM AND START OVER from the ground up. And anyone that complained I'd shoot right between the eyes.

Can I make it anymore clear? I'm selfish now. I've got "mine". I'm set for life beyond a nuclear bomb exploding over me. I'm tired of the fight. I'm tired of trying to educate the idiots and morons that blindly accept 7.65% of their pay going down a rathole while whining if their private employer increases their contribution to the health plan they THINK is their entitlement. I'm tired of listening to lazy morons tell me I have to pay taxes to pay for their grandma's pills while they drive $50K SUV's and live in $500K homes they think they are owed. I'm tired of paying for worthless human scum when they go to the emergency room for a finger cut and demand 24/7 service. And I'm more tired of the people that cloud those issues with "compassion" and "for the children" while they themselves couldn't care less about them unless they voted their way.

And you know what? I'll take care of myself. I'm not even afraid of terrorist killing me. More than likely they'll attack the big cities where liberals live (boy do I get hate mail with that one) so why should I care how many blue urban areas get nuked? They don't. They want Dean!

Yes, I'm cynical. Yes, I'm disgusted. And Yes, I just don't care any longer. Bush, Gephardt, Dean, Gore, Hillary, Bill, McCain...what's the f'ing difference? NOTHING! NOTHING CHANGES! NOTHING GETS DONE! NOTHING MOVES FORWARD! And NOTHING REPRESENTS THE PEOPLE. If the people were represented we'd have school vouchers (75% support), illegal aliens wouldn't get welfare or other benefits (70% support), our borders would be closed (68% support), our tax rates would be lower regardless of the static math idiots, our military would be bigger and better funded to pay for SOLDIERS and not bureaucratic nonsense and competing systems between the services (even Reagan tried and failed on this point and Rummy is rolling a giant ball uphill with this), our budget would be lean and held accountable and AUDITABLE (like is required of the private sector with penalty of law that the government is immune from), etc. And our federal government wouldn't be spending TWICE the level of total corporate operating profits.

So Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! My Batcave is now closed.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"About all you can do is move to another country that is as extreme right as you are. "

There it is: extreme right.

Thank you for saying it; no one else has the guts to, even though their posts imply it over and over again.

I am far from extreme right. I'm 35, and have led a life of balanced philosophies. Really conservative people would probably shun me! Look. All I was trying to say is that this road leads to hell. We will be totally socialist soon because everyone seems to accept it in different degrees. And that would be slavery to me. Sure, reelecting a Republican is important... but we need to talk about the dismantling of our institutions. I truly believe we are losing it all, right at this moment in history.

[af_vet_1981]

I'm not supporting or voting for Dean, or any other Democrat.

Of course you are. You think we are stupid enough to buy your product. We remember what happened with Ross Perot and his reform party. All it did was elect Bill and Hillary Clinton to two terms in the WH where they could prey upon the Republic. There is no plausible alternative to taking our fair share of power through the Republican Party. The more people who become conservative Republicans, the more influence we can have on policy.

And you've already surrendered.

Hardly, I'm not following you off a cliff. You have surrendered to the Democrats. You would let them have every single seat in Congress and the White House. No, I'm here to fight stupidity like you are advocating.

You'll vote Republican no matter what, and they know it. You are neutered politically, and the sad part is that you can't recognize it. They could vote a 50% tax hike and you'd pull the lever out of fear that the Dem's might go 60%.

The only reason conservatives have any political influence whatsoever is because they are a significant force in the Republican Party. You are sad because I'm not stupid enough to fall for your snake oil. You want to shill on FR for the Democrats and can't believe we aren't buying your garbage.

What a sad state of affairs this nation is in.

You might try the French. They'll love to listen to you. They like the sound of surrender. Go Dean ...

[familyofman]

Neo/paleo - whatever, if they support "amnesty" for illegals they don't deserve any conservative votes. Atleast Judas got some silver directly for his actions - what are these fools going to get - votes they think.

[af_vet_1981]

Keeping the World Court and Kyoto from destroying American sovereignty.

He is just here to shill for Dean and other American traitors who are waiting to surrender to the French. Your patriotic reason will have no rational effect on him.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

But, as I previously stated, some refuse to learn. They should be forever barred from posting to FR!

OK. At least you're honest about it. In that case, I expect you to be the one who spearheads the campaign for FR to be an associated and funded wing of the RNC. I mean...if what you say is ultimate truth...its the natural next step.

Paging...Jim Robinson...Jim Robinson.

They don't know and are incapable of comprehending the smallest of facts about government/politics.

Thats pretty obtuse...but thanks for enlightening all of us lowly pee-ons. Our nation and party is deeply indebited to you.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

Nice Rant. Can't say I disagree with you.

[RinaseaofDs]

No, the lesson here, that the party stubbornly refuses to learn, is that the party represents conservatives.

Reagan showed the path. Bush wouldn't follow it, which led to Clinton. Now GWB won't follow the path.

As far as little old me, with one little vote putting the whole country in danger, I guess I'd say that extortion isn't a good enough reason to make me vote republican automatically.

If that's the best people here can do is say, "Vote for Bush, or you are putting your children's lives on the line," then we already lost everything anyway.

Do you know what would have happened if SCOTUS had granted cert to Silviera? We'd be sitting here pissed off about losing the 2nd amendment too! Do you realize that?

So your message to me is that safety from terrorists is worth losing the 1st and 2nd amendments, and seeing Gay marriage being constitutionally protected, along with probably polygamy and beastiality? Is that what you are saying?

I'd say to you the price is too high.

Kissinger was right: you put normal people's lives in danger and they will countenance any afront to their basic liberties, no matter how fundamental.

I say we start tanking GWB's poll numbers to the extent we can and see what happens.

You think you can handle that, or am I putting your life in danger by freeping a couple of polls?

I really don't know what is worse at this point: Dean or losing rights that would have had Jefferson and Madison raising an army.

[tortoise]

Look at the Socialist countries like Canada, France, etc...over 50 % of their income goes to a government they have very little control over.

Ahem... This is the case in the US right now, with the current political landscape.

Choosing the means by which I will be murdered is not much of a choice. The technical details of implementation are of no consequence to me given the result.