Ranchers Sued by Civil Rights Group

Associated Press ^ | Dec 10, 2003 | Arthur H. Rotstein

[Stopislamnow]

bait!

Declined.

Find someone else to vilify.

[Cultural Jihad]

Advocating the shooting and shoveling of unarmed women and children doesn't need any vilification.

[scan58]

I guess it would be OK if you or I wanted to "cross their property" (trespass), too? Oh yeah...it's only the undocumented immigrants who have the "right" to do that.

[Cultural Jihad]

From the article: "Allen said Roger and Donald Barnett detained a group of 30 undocumented immigrants on Mackenzie's ranch."

False-imprisonment is a felony, and they had to trespass on private property in order to effect their felonies. The knuckle-draggers had probably not witnessed any misdemeanor border-crossing.

[Backstop73]

Yes M Kehoe - that's what I think you're supposed to do.
It's my property, I own it, and if I say stay off, then I should be able to deny (illegal)access to anyone.[/rhetorical statement]
It's interesting because here in Texas, you can shoot someone, at night, who is stealing/vandalizing your property. Personally, I wouldn't shoot someone who was stealing my chicken. I would though, scare the beegesus out of him. But his life is not worth my chicken. (This is based on an actual event here). Seems that if I can shoot someone under these conditions, then I would logically be able to round up people who are trespassing on my property. Not to mention IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY!

[Pitchfork]

I'm a bit confused by this article

The sentence:
"For at least four years, the Barnetts have patrolled their 22,000-acre ranch about five miles north of Douglas, apprehending illegal immigrants crossing their property and turning them over to the U.S. Border Patrol." Seems to imply the Barnetts were patrolling their own property which would mean that they are well within their rights.

However, other parts that indicate that the Barnetts run a towing service in Sierra Vista which is 40 miles from the Douglas area. If they aren't landowners then it is they who are the trespassers. Parts of the story seem to confirm this interpretation. The bit about them stopping 30 illegals, impersonating US Border patrol agents (a crime), and of MacKenzie stopping them on his property
If these idiots are running around on someone else property, armed and dressed up like federal agents then they ought to be happy that MacKenzie is just suing them and didn't shoot them on site! He'd be well within his rights to think that these armed intruders represented a threat to his safety.

[Missouri]

"These vigilantes who have come into southern Arizona from out-of-state don't belong here," he said. "We don't need them here.

What a statement! American citizens (so-called vigilantes) can't travel in their own country but this bozo has no problems with foriegn nationals tresspassing into our country.

[M Kehoe]

Allegedly the knuckle-dragging vigilantes are trespassing on other people's personal property

You must have seen the lawsuit. I didn't see that in the article.

5.56mm

[Cultural Jihad]

If these idiots are running around on someone else property, armed and dressed up like federal agents then they ought to be happy that MacKenzie is just suing them and didn't shoot them on site!

Exactly. I think the article points out that the idiots effect lawful arrests for trespassing on their own property, but then point out that they also commit trespass to commit felonious false-imprisonment, too.

[scan58]

Sounds like, then, the Summerland Monastery is a huge free gateway into the US?

[Cultural Jihad]

From the article: "He said he never gave the Barnetts permission to enter the property."

[Cultural Jihad]

Your disdain at trespass would carry more weight if the vigilante goons were not themselves trespassing onto other people's property to commit felonious false-imprisonment onto suspected misdemeanor border-crossers.

[Stopislamnow]

Oh yes, only un-armed women and children illegaly cross our borders.

Uhm, hm.

Maybe you should read the news.

Houses robbed.
Landowners beaten and murdered in thier own homes.
Livestock killed. Wells polluted. Vehicles stolen.
Fences cut. Pollution left everywhere on private property.
Border police shot.
Mexican ARMY running cover for coyotes and drug smugglers.
Mexican ARMY crossing over, kidnapping AMERICAN citizens back over the border.
Working under the table as dayworkers, avoiding taxes for the most part. Burdening US CITIZENS with backbreaking bills.

Then lets get into the evidence of ISLAMIC illegals using Mexico as a waypoint for the US.

Lets get into the billions of tax dollars everyone pays so Enrique and Pablo can work here for a few weeks, stealing work from citizens the entire time to raise money to bring those women and children over so those same women and children can bring tuberculosis back in vogue in the Southwestern United States. Now those women and children suck up our tax dollars via WELFARE, *gasp* HEALTHCARE(hospitals in border areas are in deep doo doo financially).

Then lets go back to them breaking the law in the first place. Illegal aliens means they are here illegally. They do not deserve the "immigrant" label. Immigrants go thru the process legally.

12 Million Illegals is the latest estimate. Now they want to let them vote. Criminals. NON-CITIZENS. And they want the illegals who return to get SOCIAL SECURITY.

I see ya like fantasy, I do too. Being able to seperate the two isn't hard if ya try.

[Pitchfork]

Until legitimate law enforcement officials, following the appropriate procedure to secure access to the property (should the owner decline to offer it freely) for the purpose of apprehending illegal immigrants, or the owner decides to do this himself the answer is: YES.

Its amazing how many self-declared 'conservatives' are willing to violate fundamental rights (like the right to property) in the pursuit of their fanatical projects.

The Barnetts all deserve jail time.

[ridesthemiles]

Shoot Shovel and Shut up

[Pitchfork]

So what are you saying is you beleive the Barnetts should be able to violate Mr. Mackenzie's property rights at will because you agree with their cause?!

[rudy45]

What issues would you have with the citizen patrols if they
- stayed on property that was their own, or onto which they were invited by the property owner
- refrained from verbal or physical abuse of illegal immigrants
- detained them and turned them over to proper authorities (Border Patrol or local police) ?

I want to be sure that we're not throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater.

As long as no abuses occur, what issues do you have with these citizen patrols?

[ridesthemiles]

The Barnetts all deserve jail time.

If this is their property, they deserve a medal and more of us showing up to ride patrol with them.
Where do you live and what do you identify as an intruder on your property?

[Cultural Jihad]

Maybe you should read the news.

If someone breaks into a home or commits any other crime, then prosecute them for the crime. For a private citizen to arrest someone because he suspects they committed a misdemeanor infraction is false-imprisonment, and a felony. That is the law in Arizona. In order to effect a citizen's arrest for a misdemeanor, an individual must have witnessed the infraction. These vigilante goons had not witnessed any border-crossing.

You can't have it both ways. You can't gripe that people are breaking misdemeanor laws in Arizona and then excuse the commission of felonies. That is, unless you are seeking to be self-marginalized.

[rudy45]

Who owns the 22,000 acre ranch? The Barnetts or the Mackenzies? The article is unclear on this point.

Are the Barnetts patrolling THEIR OWN ranch? Or are they patrolling the ranch that belongs to MACKENZIE?