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While 4th ID Major General Presses "Be Lethal" Message, One of his own Lt. Col. Stands So Charged
Sierra Times ^
| december 9, 2003
| Debi Brand
Posted on 12/09/2003 4:05:51 PM PST by Ispy4u
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Another article about LTC West. Maybe some of the folks who gave me crap about posting editorials from some left leaning authors will be happier now. Posting of these articles is primarily to preserve the record, secondarily to enable me to criticize the actions of LTC Alan B. West.
1
posted on
12/09/2003 4:05:55 PM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: Ispy4u; Poohbah; Pukin Dog; Calpernia; Jeff Head; caisson71; BSunday; Vets_Husband_and_Wife; ...
Ping! Another West article if you're interested.
2
posted on
12/09/2003 4:09:04 PM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: Ispy4u
So when is the trial of the idiot who decided to bring up Lt. Col. West on charges? And identity, please, too - if anyone knows it, preferably with an address or email where I can send some appropriately scalding invective.
3
posted on
12/09/2003 4:22:51 PM PST
by
thoughtomator
(The U.N. is a terrorist organization)
To: Ispy4u
Meanwhile, a division watches. So too, a nation. This is a new kind of war that America engages in, and President George W. Bush was right in taking pre-emptive action to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.
That same reason for sending American troops into Iraq also justifies the action Lt. Col. West used to interrogate the Iraqi suspect.
The is not a Marquis of Queensbury war. Our men are fighting for the survival of America.
4
posted on
12/09/2003 4:27:19 PM PST
by
thinktwice
(America is truly blessed ... with George W. Bush as President..)
To: Ispy4u
to enable me to criticize the actions of LTC Alan B. West. Why would you want to do that?
LVM
5
posted on
12/09/2003 4:29:35 PM PST
by
LasVegasMac
(Thunder was his engine and White Lightning was his load....)
To: Ispy4u
All-the-while, daily this past week the death toll in the 4th ID continued to rise. And as a mother of one 4th ID soldier, we can only pray our son is blessed enough to be serving under the command of a man the likes of the height, width and stock not far from that seen in Lt. Col Allen B. West. It isn't surprizing to know a MOM would want her son to serve under the likes of LTC West. God willing, the charges will be dismissed. It is hard to find positive articles about our military in a liberal press, when they are driven by a social agenda. Point being, the feel good, mamby pamby, NO GUNS crowd (except for "criminals", cause that's what you end up with, with gun control)who would rather see our guys killed, than to see us rough up a terrorist to save some of our own.
I guess I should just say "thanks" for pinging me to a thread that was somewhat showing the "other" side.
Now we'll see if General Odierno has the courage to DO the RIGHT thing and DISMISS these charges, and restore LTC Wests command to him!!
To: thinktwice
BUMP!! Great post!
To: Ispy4u
Ping! Another West article if you're interested.
Okay, but I don't suspect you'll be able to sustain your position any better than you did in the last two ; )
8
posted on
12/09/2003 4:43:54 PM PST
by
BSunday
(Libs, libs, everywhere, but not a brain to pick)
To: LasVegasMac
lol.....Don't get Ispy started. He values the regulation book more than human lives, and doesn't think that battlefield initiative should EVER under ANY circumstance involve breaking even the most trivial and outdated regulation. He also doesn't seem to comprehend that severely punishing Col. West encourages our enemies, therefore placing our troops more at risk than they already are. The consequence: lowered morale and a higher (U.S.) dead body count.
9
posted on
12/09/2003 4:47:34 PM PST
by
Mr. Mojo
To: Ispy4u
And more chest-thumping from those folks who don't care if we become as vile as the folks we spent blood and treasure to remove from Iraq.
10
posted on
12/09/2003 4:50:17 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: Poohbah
And more chest-thumping from those folks who don't care if we become as vile as the folks we spent blood and treasure to remove from Iraq. So you equate Col. West's shooting his gun in the air to scare a prisoner into revealing plans for an ambush that could wipe out his men with the Ba'athist Party's torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of their own people? Don't take this the wrong way, but that is without question the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on this website. You should be ashamed of yourself.
11
posted on
12/09/2003 4:56:11 PM PST
by
Mr. Mojo
To: Poohbah; Ispy4u
Sorry to disappoint, but we do care what we become, but let's not overdramatize what LTC West did. He simply got the job done the most efficient was possible and didn't hurt anybody - a fact which seems to be lost on you both. You are acting like one of these clownish public school administrators who discover one of their little Zero Tolerance rules was technically broken.
"OMG the world is going to end!!!! A ruuuuuuuuuuuuule was broooooooooooken!!!!
12
posted on
12/09/2003 4:58:32 PM PST
by
BSunday
(Libs, libs, everywhere, but not a brain to pick)
To: BSunday
They were both probably "hall monitors" in grade school.
And I suspect their teachers got quite a few apples.
13
posted on
12/09/2003 5:02:04 PM PST
by
Mr. Mojo
To: Mr. Mojo; Ispy4u
So you equate Col. West's shooting his gun in the air to scare a prisoner into revealing plans for an ambush that could wipe out his men with the Ba'athist Party's torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of their own people?It was a favorite interrogation strategy used of the late and unlamented Mukhbarat. Yes, I am equating it as such--the first step onto the slippery slope of "the ends justifies the means" is the easiest to avoid and the hardest to recover from.
Incidentally, it has yet to be proven that LTC West's "interrogation" accomplished what he claims it did.
Also, if (a) the ambush was actually going to happen (not established as fact) and (b) it really COULD "wipe out his men" (an entire battalion), then LTC West should have resigned his commission in favor of someone who can demonstrate basic tactical competence.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that is without question the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on this website.
Try reading your own screeds on this topic.
14
posted on
12/09/2003 5:04:36 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: Poohbah
My suspicions are correct; you're a complete moron.
15
posted on
12/09/2003 5:05:35 PM PST
by
Mr. Mojo
To: Poohbah
Also, if (a) the ambush was actually going to happen (not established as factYou must have caught this disease from Ispy - constantly questioning the integrity and character of others.
16
posted on
12/09/2003 5:07:52 PM PST
by
BSunday
(Libs, libs, everywhere, but not a brain to pick)
To: thoughtomator
So when is the trial of the idiot who decided to bring up Lt. Col. West on charges? And identity, please, too - if anyone knows it, preferably with an address or email where I can send some appropriately scalding invective. Count on this much: her future career in the US military is toast.
-archy-/-
17
posted on
12/09/2003 5:08:11 PM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: BSunday; Ispy4u
Sorry to disappoint, but we do care what we become, but let's not overdramatize what LTC West did.I'm not overdramatizing what he did. He willfully violated orders; he gave illegal orders to his personnel, who have since been punished for obeying those orders.
You cannot punish the subordinate and then pat the senior on the head for the same action.
He simply got the job done the most efficient was possible and didn't hurt anybody - a fact which seems to be lost on you both.
It hasn't been established as fact that he actually got the job done as he described it--a fact which seems to be lost on the West groupies.
You are acting like one of these clownish public school administrators who discover one of their little Zero Tolerance rules was technically broken.
This is what we know, factually:
(1) LTC West did violate orders from his seniors, and gave illegal orders to his subordinates.
(2) An ambush that may or may not have been actually planned did not take place.
(3) No one has demonstrated a solid connection between (1) and (2). Indeed, no one has actually demonstrated that (2) was actually about to happen.
(4) West's subordinates have been punished for obeying West's illegal orders.
(5) West now faces prosecution for issuing those orders and disobeying lawful orders to begin with.
That's all we know at this time.
18
posted on
12/09/2003 5:12:42 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: Mr. Mojo; Ispy4u
My suspicions are correct; you're a complete moron.No rebuttal of the facts, merely ad hominem.
19
posted on
12/09/2003 5:14:01 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: Mr. Mojo; Poohbah
I hereby nominate Poohbah to a job involving airport security.
20
posted on
12/09/2003 5:14:47 PM PST
by
BSunday
(Libs, libs, everywhere, but not a brain to pick)
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