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To: RightWingAtheist
Isn't odd how the ostensiably "conservative" creationists continually exaptiate the Left's relativist and anti-naturalist arguments for themselves.

Not odd at all. The "denial syndrome" is exceedingly common on the left. I'm not saying that creationists are leftists. Most of them around here aren't, and would pass out at the suggestion. But deep down, waaaaay deep, there is a psychological similarity.

Consider how leftists during the 20th century had to deny the terror of Stalin, deny the fact that the American communist party was a tool of Moscow, deny that Hiss was a commie, etc. All some weird, sick, very elaborate kind of mental mechanism to deny reality and thus maintain an insane ideology. How much can one deny in order to cling to a fantasy version of the world? There seems to be no limit.

If you have the "denial-type mentality" are there other reality-denying ideological worldviews in which you can find a home? Sure. Lots of them. And being attracted to one doesn't imply any sympathy for the "content" of the others. They're all "intellectually" unrelated. But they all have reality-denying true believers at their core: holocaust denial, moon-landing denial, Afro-centricism (that is, history-denial), and as you noticed, leftists (whose politics and economics are demonstrably insane).

The great virtue of science is that it faces the data without bias, and is unafraid to abandon an hypothesis that is demonstrably false. This "reality-based" outlook is the source of the success of the scientific worldview. Any other "reality-based" systems? I can think of a few: capitalism, the US Constitution (as originally written), and virtually all of English common law.

97 posted on 12/10/2003 3:32:58 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: PatrickHenry; RightWingAtheist
You remind me of an exchange I had recently with my brother in law. I was surpised to learn he is a hard core marxist who thinks communism is still the way to go (of course I got the usual "pure communism has never been tried" - a reprise of the no true scotsman argument I suppose). When I asked about the natural biological instinct towards self-interest he tells me there is no such thing as a human nature. I told him there is very solid evidence that genes influence behavior and gave him several examples off the top of my head. He simply dismissed it with "I don't believe any of it".

It really was like arguing with a creationist. He's young and an otherwise smart person so I think he'll eventually outgrow this. Some others are beyond help...

110 posted on 12/10/2003 9:18:14 AM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: PatrickHenry
You have explained my own conservatism better than I ever could. Thank you!
145 posted on 12/10/2003 8:28:52 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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