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To: AndyJackson
OK Andy you've made where you come from clear. You are one of those officers who believes that anything an officer does is justified if they can come up with an excuse, because you are "different" from the rest of the soldiers.

I don't like officers like you and I don't respect officers like you. Gratefully I don't work for officers like you either.

This incident is over, and I for one am going to use the lessons from it, I guess you wouldn't, great.
274 posted on 12/11/2003 5:29:56 AM PST by Ispy4u
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To: Ispy4u
OK Andy you've made where you come from clear. You are one of those officers who believes that anything an officer does is justified if they can come up with an excuse, because you are "different" from the rest of the soldiers. I don't like officers like you and I don't respect officers like you. Gratefully I don't work for officers like you either.

I hope I have made where I come from very clear. Nothing an officer does is justified if he does not do his duty. I expect every combat officer and soldier in our forces to do his duty. I hope one of these days you grow up and attain a man's estate and understand what that means. But if you continue your snippy little "Susie put bubblegum in Johnie's hair" approach to life I doubt you will live long enough.

The duty of an officer is to provide leadership, direction and make the hard choices in difficult positions. By law and custom that is a responsibility that an officer has that a soldier does not. However, some of the finest in this regard in my experience are not junior commissioned officers, but senior non-commissioned officers, so it is not class issue. It is an attitude issue. If in doing his duty he has to break some rules, I have never known an officer or NCO to have to make excuses or apologise. I have known a lot of cases where an officer has used the rules as an excuse for not doing his duty and been cashiered on the spot. This is something that an enlisted soldier or sailor does not normally have to fear.

As Lord Nelson instructed the forces at Trafalger - he expected each man to do his duty - not obey orders and fleet regulations - do his duty. This same Lord Nelson, who is the examplar in the Royal Navy and the U.S. Navy of doing one's duty famously "turned a blind eye" to orders, which if followed would have deterred him from destroying the French fleet, which he proceeded to do. His men did do their duty. They destroyed the French fleet at Trafalgar in one of the most famous Naval battles of all time. Lord Nelson lost his life in that battle.

Your other great paragon of duty, Gen. Macarthur was similarly famous for violating orders, rules and regulations every time it was necessary in order to acheive the higher duty of winning a battle. He did not lose his life.

Another recent example of an officer disobeying orders was the British Officer who declined Gen Clark's order to attack a Russian position. By declining the opportunity to start WWIII he did his duty. Far from being cashiered for disobeying a direct order of a superior, it was Clark who was ultimately dismissed. By the way, I am aware of no order that forbids an officer doing things to start WWIII except duty, honor and the traditions of his service. As a attack boat officer in the cold war, I/we had plenty of opportunities to create incidents to start a nuclear war. We knew, however, that our duty lay elsewhere.

Yes there are higher standards than just obeying regulations. Despite your assertions, I have never known a sailor to get very far by just obeying the rules. He got somewhere by showing hard work and initiative in assisting the outfit in accomplishing its mission. These higher standars you have already ennumberated - duty, honor, but also leadership, initiative, loyalty, etc. Often doing one's duty requires deciding to break a rule. Often to save one's ship one has to execute a maneuver or operate a piece of equipment out of conformance with SOP's. Often one has to do a midnight supply requisition in violation of every known rule and regulation. If it is for personal profit you go to jail. If it is to accomplish a mission you get a wink, a slap on the back, and sometimes a medal. You never have to make an excuse.

In combat there is no substitute for victory. None. U.S. law and international prestige can survive what LTCOL West did. In fact it is if anything bolstered by it. It cannot, however, survive so many casualties from terorist attacks that we are forced, under public pressure, to withdraw.

You seem to suggest that I have set up an arbitrary standard for officers to follow. Duty is not arbitrary and it is not capricious. It is an exacting standard - so exacting that you have no hope of understanding it, much less living up to it.

Your world could not exist if folks just followed the rules. A fireman would not be able to rescue and old lady from a burning building until he found a quarter for each of the parking meters. An ambulance would drive on the right side of the road, and stuck in traffic, get his heart attack victim to the hospital hours too late. There are plenty of rules to follow to defeat. There is only one to victory. That is to defeat the enemy.

277 posted on 12/11/2003 7:51:10 PM PST by AndyJackson
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