Army Right To Punish Lt. Col. West

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8 Dec 2003 | Jay Bookman

[cookcounty]

I'm not in the service now. Let's just say I have some familiarity with your MOS. I'm very proud to have people with your attitude representing me in such a difficult and complicated task. Thanks for your service.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

when disciplin is done correctly,

Precisely where we differ. I do not think discipline was done correctly in this instance.

[Delta 21]

Just a bit of perspective here.....

Anyone who doesnt support completely overwhelming firepower used with extreme prejudice when engaging an enemy force that wants to spill your blood is an idiot.

[Axenolith]

You are only confusing the situation by not looking to the basic breach of discipline, and that is all he is charged with.

If that is truly the issue then you'd do well to not refer to a screed that revolves around the premise that our actions are contrary to the Geneva Convention...

You have to admit that there's been a spiraling out of control of the media spin on each side here. Col. West may have "broke the rules", but that infraction should have warranted quite a bit milder treatment and maybe a review of how we treat combatants out of uniform (with a subsequent dispersal of the negative aspects of harsher non-uniformed combatants treatment to the locals). It's obvious that the current situation will just have people over there walking on eggshells should he be hammered, and the fact that he faces a harsh punishment is the reason this has been brought into the public spotlight...

[Ispy4u]

An ass chewing would not have sufficed if only because his actions were witnessed by subordinates.

As a leader you are the example. There is no substitute.

[Ispy4u]

I'm glad to do it.

[Ispy4u]

When dealing with enemy engagements, you are precisely correct. When questioning an unarmed detained prisoner that is another matter. The paths diverge when the enemy is captured or surrenders.

[archy]

LTC West uncovered a plan to attack Americans. He got the info by firing his pistol past the head of a conspirator. The conspirator should be happy that LTC West was interogating him. I would have shot him in the ass.

Excessively hasty, and unless you're very, VERY good, risks arterial bleeding that can end your prisoner's interrogation prematurely.

Just turn him over to the Nungs. They're older now, but there are still a few around.

-archy-/-

[Ispy4u]

The soldiers have no need to walk on egg shells, they have been taught exactly what is expected of them concerning handling of prisoners.

There is no need to fear if you are doing the right thing, sometimes the right thing is tough to do, but we've all been there before.

I don't think his punishment will be harsh at all, it was probably never intented to be harsh but the evidence supported the charge of aggravated assault and in order to present uniform discipline and justice, get out or court martial were the fair options.

[archy]

His commanding officer didn't find anything wrong with the techniques. It was in a "rambling letter" that mentioned, in passing, something about what LTC West did that the PC lawyers decided they knew better than his commanding officer and his own staff.

Ummmm, the PC lawyers, and the two female Military Intelligence interrogators, annoyed that the grunt LTC got results when they did not....

[Delta 21]

It makes me sleep better at night knowing you and so many others can draw such clear distictions ....after the fact.

[NMFXSTC]

"Jay Bookman is the deputy editorial page editor."

I guess my only question is: Did Mr. Bookman ever engage in any combat, wear the uniform, or see any of his buddies last breaths? Methinketh not!

[raybbr]

You say:

The questionable actions of any soldier in our military can bring dishonor and condemnation on the entire nation if we are percieved to support those actions.

And then:

Our service has nothing to do with "raising up in the eyes of the world" but we are duty bound to not bring shame and discredit on our nation.

You are quite simply arguing out of both sides of your mouth. If the questionable actions of a soldier has the ability to bring on conemnation then how is that what you advocate isn't going to bring on praise from our detractors?

You simply have it in for this guy. I have read your previous posts on this issue and can see that there is something personal in your hyperbole.

I wish you well and hope you can reconcile whatever it is the Lt. Col. West has done to offend you.

[Dubya]

Bump for good post.

[Just another Joe]

I don't think his punishment will be harsh at all, it was probably never intented to be harsh

I tend to disagree with you on this also.
They will make an example of LTC West if they possibly can.
The plea bargain to resign with no retirement was too harsh to begin with. They almost HAD to know that he would not take that and he would go to the court martial.
Someone wants to burn this man bad. I'm not sure who has made that decision but, IMO, that decision has been made.

[Dubya]

Thanks for the ping.

[Ispy4u]

How do you know I wouldn't draw the clear distinction if I were in his shoes?

I know exactly what I'm supposed to do, and if I fail to do that then I would have to face the music just like him.

For anyone conducting "conventional" operations, that includes LTC West, the lines are drawn very clearly, the rules are repeated incessantly, and the expectation to lead by example is ever present. There is no excuse for failing under those circumstances.

Please don't rebut with the guerilla tactics aren't "conventional", you're right they aren't but our response from conventional forces is conventional.

[Ispy4u]

I don't see how they had any other choice than the offer they made. He didn't have 20 years at the time and he did admit to acts that support felony level charges, I don't see how they could wait and still project any justice in the matter.

[BSunday]

While I personally applaud LTC West, he knowingly violated the UCMJ. You are taught over and over that there are things you may not do, his actions were wrong.

Spoken like a true Zero Tolerance disciple. Shows no regard for context. LTC West is a hero.

[Delta 21]

Probably a Clinton promoted REMF who couldnt lead my dog.

It just pissed them off more when he actually admitted to them that he did what was reported and would do it again.

It would have been ok if he would have caved in a claimed to be under undue stress and lost his head. But for someone to take credit and full responsibility for doing something that was the absolute correct thing to do is something that some people just cant stand.