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See replies in brackets [[ ]]

Norquist, the conservative libertarian that he is, apparently doesn't like the "secret evidence" thingy. Neither does Bob Barr.

[[ Neither did Jim Woolsey but he's not taking money for terorist financiers and Saudi fronts, and then taking them into the debate, much less the White House. ]] Does that make them both terrorist sympathizers? I don't think so. Does that make Norquist anti-Israel? I don't think so although, I believe he is very naive to the dangers we face and to the compromises we must make in the war on terrorism -- during the war on terrorism.

[[ Secret evidence is only one, since 9/11 eclipsed, agenda item and the one that provides a the fig leaf for coaltion building and policy pretense. That Grover is effectively sympathetic to terrorists is amply demonstrated by hwo many of them are around him; that he says nice things like "stinkin' Jews" and accuses all opponets of being Likud Agents and Mossad agents, is also. What made him that way, I don't know or care. That he hangs out with, for several years, now, people who openly profess to want to destroy Israel and say 'Death to America' and 'Death to Israel' and that he takes awards and edits letters for a head of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or raises money for Nawash (see earlier posting on same) --these things may or may not mean he is anti-Israel. I'm sure some of his best friends are Jewish, right? ]]

Additionally, similar to the Islamic Institute, Norquist helped build and worked with the conservative Jewish organization Torward Tradition in the mid-ninties. His purpose was to organize conservative Jews. And before that, Grover Norquist worked with Ralph Reid [[Reed]] as they worked for Pat Roberson and Jerry Falwell to organize Christian conservatives. Now he attempts to do the same thing with the Islamic Institute and all hell breaks lose.

[[No, now he lobbies for a living and gets paid a lot and finds the old model to work well for a new trick, and it fools the fans. To state the obvious,in the previous projects, he did not bring terrorists and their apolgists, lawyers and funders around town and into the movement! Duh. ]]

So what we have here is a guy -- Norquist -- who believes that a good way to organize conservatives and to promote conservatism is through conservative religious organizations, whether it be Christian, Jewish or Muslim.

[[ HELLO!! Wahhabis and other Islamists are not "conservative" in the normative sense, remotely, and assuming you weren't disingenuously trying to pull a fast one by lining them up with the other two , I just urge you to study up a bit. You too can start with the USNEWS cover story for this week by Dave Kaplan on Saudi support for Global Terror. ]] And what we have here is a guy who believes in the strict adherence to the constitution --
[[ but not it's laws apparently; by the way, "secret evidence" is constitutional until the Supremes say otherwise, not Grover, thank you. ]] even during war times.

Thus his position on Muslims, secret evidence and immigrant [[ precision helps; "illegal alien" Kissinger was an immigrant. And, different legal rights apply]] deportation -- Al-Najjir -- and thus his seeming oblivious attitude torwards the gathering storm and the gathering evidence around him about a handful of extremists that have come into contact with him.

[[ No! Not "a handful," several handfulls --it is only "a handful" that have to date been arrested. Some Administrations manage to get well into the second term before even one WH visitor gets arrested for a felony, let alone terrorism! And they didn't "come into contact with him" he went out and hired, recruited, rallied and brought them to Austin and thence to the White House. And he's gone around the country speaking with them, etc.]]

Does this make him a terrorist sympathizer, a traitor to this country and somebody who is anti-Israel.

IMV -- NO, but it does make him any enemy of those who wish to see conservatives of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions not organize.

[[ I don't no what this is to mean, but the basic point is what the "it" is and the passive tone; he wasn't "made" something, he's been busy making himself this mess.]]

That IMV is the reason behind the attempted infiltration of Al-Arian and Awad and the others into the AMC. And their attempts to infiltrate the Islamic Institute.

[[ WHOA! Alamoudi CREATED the AMC, his deputy, Saffuri created the Islamic Institute using Alamoud's money and that of other Saudi-funded entitites and the other offiically Wahhabi state, and using another Alamudi eptuy as his , Alkebsi (now placed at the National Endowment for Democracy, deciding who gets govt. money to go on Mideast & N. African training junkets.) Al Arian's group are not the AMC/ AMF; and AWAD created CAIR out of a previous Hamas front. So First, you don't have any of these facts straight,

Second, that gets to another point: these orgs and groups have been together for years in a network of entities all orginally spun out of the Saudi Muslim World League and the Muslim Students Association beginning in 1963 in the US and Canada. Their purpose: control Islam in America in the Saudi salafi mold. They control more mosques, schools and organizations, and virtually every related PAC and political shop in America. The "attempted inflitration" is a long-accomplished fact.

Long before Pipes, Emerson, Timmerman, Schwarts, US NEWS, Senator Kly's terrorism hearings, the sting of related affadavits, or Gaffney --al these groups were well-known, had extensive webstie and evetns, clear radcial language, gave awards to terrorists at their annual dinners, for decades. H Rap Brown ran the AMC, twice, in fact. Now one of the cause celebres among most all opf these grousp who web pages dedicated to freeing him from his life sentences for cop killing. Twice on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list. Any idiot could have figured this stuff out, even an idiot savant as some apparently now want to call Grover to excuplate him.]]

It is an attempt to discredit those organization to stop religious conservatism of all types from organizing and gaining power and by the looks of this thread they may have succeeded.

[[No, it is a misguided attempt to play domestic votes and money counting games with foreign policy and national security using a groups of people who have no interest in domestic tranquility or our constitution but rather,and clearly want to abuse and then blow up each. The Arab and Muslim voter population that actually voted in the 2000 election turns out to be about 1%. (kinda shows why they could't even carry Spencer Abraham to victory in their most concentrated state). So, Let's GO FOR IT, What a cleverling idea that Grover had. Or was he a naif. I can't recall......

678 posted on 12/16/2003 10:09:21 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Sabertooth
That IMV is the reason behind the attempted infiltration of Al-Arian and Awad and the others into the AMC and their attempts to infiltrate the Islamic Institute. It is an attempt to discredit those organization to stop religious conservatism of all types from organizing and gaining power and by the looks of this thread they may have succeeded.
I might add, the current president who is after all the one in charge here doesn't back down from attempted dsitruptions of his foreign policy. Whether it be Israel/Palistine, whether it be the resistance fighting of a few in Iraq or whether it be the attempted infiltration of his attempted puny little outreach program to conservative Muslims.

Expect to see Grover and this outreach to continue and expect to see any terrorists who may try to infiltrate their way in, get shown the legal options.