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To: general_re; Nick Danger
...I for one appreciate the hell out of your efforts to ask hard questions about the apparatus that is ostensibly - but apparently not actually - in place to prevent foreign agents from gaining influence.
Ummm...where exactly do you see that happening?
I'm still waiting on an answer to my 335...
Nick...Do you suppose the White House doesn't know who he is?
So you're saying that the White House does in fact know exactly who and what Saffuri is including his support of terrorists/terrorist organizations and then they knowingly let him visit the POTUS and WH. Is that right?

Is that also what you consider a hard question? I sure don't see any easy answers from Nick.

389 posted on 12/14/2003 7:58:19 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36
So you're saying that the White House does in fact know exactly who and what Saffuri is including his support of terrorists/terrorist organizations and then they knowingly let him visit the POTUS and WH. Is that right?

There's two possibilities here. One, they knew who he was, and let him in anyway for reasons currently unknown. Two, they didn't know who he was, in which case, the people whose job it is to know things like that in order to prevent people like that from getting in, have failed. They failed. If Saffuri is such a bad guy, somebody up there was supposed to know about it, and that somebody ain't Grover Norquist.

390 posted on 12/14/2003 8:04:00 AM PST by general_re (Knife goes in, guts come out! That's what Osaka Food Concern is all about!)
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To: philman_36
I'm still waiting on an answer to my 335...

It's just too exciting around here to keep up with all of it. My question as to whether the White House knew what Saffuri is, has to do with my unwillingness to accept the proposition that an L Street lobbyist is the guy we are to hold solely responsible for the fact that agents of a hostile foreign power got into the White House.

For all I know, this bureaucratic dodge we're getting about why all these people we pay to hunt down the spies were sitting on their hands is true; but if it is, that still doesn't make intelligence failures Grover Norquist's fault. Now we have a systemic problem instead of an incompetent-bureaucrat problem. I frankly don't care which it is. I am tired of hearing bureaucratic excuses for why this crap happens.

This guy wants to herd us all into a pen where we believe it's Grover Norquist's fault -- and his alone -- that foreign agents got close to Bush. You believe it if you want. I don't. I think we pay a ton of money to protect the national security, and when it gets breached the national security guys say it's not their department; and if the lobbyist was a serious professional he would have caught it. To paraphrase our Mystery Correspondent, are you buying that crap?

Our Mystery Correspondent has told us for a fact that "the White House" knew, where "the White House" in this case means whichever 'national security professional' Frank Gaffney whispered into the ear of. Supposedly, that guy can't do anything because it's Rove's deal and they don't do Rove; or perhaps because Rove will chew their heads off if they try. So now our national security professionals are telling us that Karl Rove is a traitor? What was the point of that story, because it absolutely left that little stench hanging in the air. In which case we come around again to, "Why Grover Norquist?" If Karl Rove is on the take or something, let's hear about that instead of dropping it in the form of innuendos. Hell, if it's Bush himself, I'd just as soon know.

Don't misunderstand my motivations here. I do not care where these chips fall. If they all end up falling on Grover Norquist, fine. But right now, what I see is that the guys we pay to keep Bush out of this kind of trouble are telling us it's not their fault, it's not their department, it's not in the procedures, and all the other crap we always hear from bureaucrats when something bad happens on their watch. Instead it's all supposed to be Grover Norquist's fault, and we can believe that because these particular bureaucrats never lie, and they're always right. You'll just have to pardon me for not being herded along properly in that direction.

410 posted on 12/14/2003 10:34:11 AM PST by Nick Danger (Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer)
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