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To: hchutch
1. The Constitution is a legal document. It is not the foundation of the country. Read the Declaration of Independence, and the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers for the entire scope.
Legal structures survive based on culture. The Latin American countries freed under Bolivar's revolution based their constitutions on ours. These failed because the culture was not ready for limit government based on a virtuous and free citizenry.
Look at the bloody failure of the French Revolution. From the start it was doomed by cultural war. The American Revolution worked because we were simply continuing a culture. Even the American Tories supported increased self-governance and limited government.

2. The word "Christian" does not exist in the Constitution. However, we were founded as an expressly non-denominational Christian country.

Check out the following quotes:
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." -Benjamin Franklin, deist.

Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion, and Morality are indispensable supports. -- In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. -- The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. -- A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. -- Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. -- Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure -- reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
--George Washington, from his Farewell Address

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand." John Adams, Letter to Zabdiel Adams, June 21, 1776

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams
{John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, ed. (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, June 21, 1776.}

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781

"Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the Foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?" James Madison

I have many others.

105 posted on 12/09/2003 1:53:55 PM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: rmlew; Poohbah
1. The Constitution (with its Amendments) is the foundation for our government and the legal system in this country. The Declaration of Independence is arguably a mission statement/the reasons we broke away from England.

The Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers provide some insight, but the final word is what the Constitution says, with the Declaration of Independence as a mission statement/statement of principles.

First and foremost, IMO, are the truths that Jefferson said were self-evident. "All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights."
Again, I see nothing there that makes any exception based on the basis of religion or culture.

Let me lay it out simply: There is nothing in the Consitution that establishes the United States of America as a Christian nation. If anything, the two provisions (plus the 14th Amendment) I have cited say very clearly that when it comes to religion, there are some basic rules for the federal government and the states:
1. No specific religion is to be singled out for support.
2. No specific religion is to be singled out for restrictions.
3. No person can have his/her religious beliefs dictated to him/her.

2. The quotes really don't matter much. Legally, they are not binding.
108 posted on 12/09/2003 2:28:40 PM PST by hchutch ("I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't." - Major Vic Deakins, USAF (ret.))
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To: rmlew
The Constitution is a legal document. It is not the foundation of the country.

I can honestly say that is the very first time I have EVER read those words on FR.

Stunning.

166 posted on 12/09/2003 9:58:22 PM PST by Howlin (Bush has stolen two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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