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To: hellinahandcart
For what it's worth, I agree with the other posters about the way flag-waving is perceived in the UK, and why. The only people who normally go in for waving the Union Jack in a big way are vicious neo-Nazi soccer thugs and two closely associated political parties the BNP and National Front.

The way British people tend to look at it is that they know they're British, don't need to wave a flag to prove it and tend to think that anyone who does, except on some particular occasions like royal processions, major international sports victories and so on, is either some sort of nutter or maybe even a sinister ultra-nationalist psychopath of some kind, like the neo-Nazi who was planting nail-bombs in gay pubs and asian markets a few years ago and whose rooms were decorated with Union Jacks and Nazi memorabilia.

I'm sure this plays at least some part in the negative perceptions of US style patriotism among my countrymen, athough most seem to understand that it's just another of the odd ways in which Americans differ from British people.
31 posted on 12/10/2003 2:56:17 AM PST by bernie_g
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To: bernie_g
You guys are not the first to explain this to me, you know.

And just for the record, I am not a huge flag-displayer myself. I have a small flag on my front door, and a few pins that I wear at appropriate times, and that's it. But I can't imagine being put off or offended by larger displays or patriotic celebrations.

I said earlier to PS that we'll just have to permanently disagree about this, because no matter how many ways you present it, it is ALWAYS going to seem strange to me.

Strange that you can look at drunken soccer fans and conclude that it's not the violence, but the flag-waving, that is to be associated with their behavior.

That it wasn't Hitler's ideology and aggression, but his nationalism, that was the problem.

That celebrating one's country publicly is intrinsically bad, so much so that this author expresses wonder that this one event was benign.

This is always going to seem odd to me, and it is also always going to remind me of the leftist school of thought that assures us we'd all be better off if we dispensed with the idea of nationhood altogether. Sorry.

I can accept that you feel that way, but I can never understand feeling that way. Particularly when you have so much of which to be proud.

32 posted on 12/10/2003 4:10:36 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: bernie_g
And anyone who would combine Nazi memorabilia and the Union Jack in their home decor is a nut-deluxe. But again, I don't understand how it's the flag that's the problem, the tip-off to psychosis, rather than the nail bombs and Nazi stuff.

He was abusing your flag. I don't understand finding the flag itself distasteful, rather than the abuser. I simply don't. Never will.

33 posted on 12/10/2003 4:22:53 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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