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To: hellinahandcart
Well, I guess that when a sports writer starts out with the belief that patriotism IS ugly

It is safer to say his entire nation starts out with that view. Europeans don't have a positive view of patriotism thanks to Hitler. You'd have to live here. Overt patriotism of the kind Americans are used to is not viewed the same at all. It is usually frowned upon as jingoistic. There's a lot of historical baggage you have to look at when trying to understand this.

You have to understand that for many people- even conservatives here- when they think of flag waving nationalism the very first thing that pops into their heads is Nuremburg. When people see flag waving Englanders on the telly, often it is those from those ugly soccer crowds. It is a good thing, I think, for patriotism to be seen in a positive light here and that is exactly what Barnes is saying.

The Times might very well be a Communist rag in disguise and Barnes, I suppose, could very well be a subversive communist but I don't see anything wrong with him putting a positive spin on patriotism.

What a miserable puke...

You don't even know the guy.

OK, he's a miserable puke AND a slave to fashion. Lousy left-leaning metrosexual...

Oh bollocks. You're just being silly now. Unless you know something about Barnes that I don't. I take him at face value here without more info. He is happy England won and he is happy patriotism doesn't have to be ugly. What's wrong with this?

18 posted on 12/09/2003 1:34:14 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
I take him at face value here without more info.

So do I.

19 posted on 12/09/2003 1:37:59 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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