Cops accidentally kill 300 citizens annually

Columbia Chronicle ^ | 12.8.2003 | unknown

[CHICAGOFARMER]

Cops accidentally kill 300 citizens annually

Editorial: Nonlethal weapons a better approach

http://www.ccchronicle.com/back/2003-12-08/opinions2.html

Here lie the casualties of an epidemic that has been increasingly gripping American cities since the early part of 1990:

·Steven Curry, 21, shot and killed by an off-duty Chicago police officer, Nov. 25, 2003.

·Michael L. Jacobs, 37, shot and killed by a Shreveport, La. police officer, claiming self-defense, Dec. 2, 2003.

·Courtney Mathis, 12, shot and killed by a Cincinnati police officer, Sept. 1, 2001.

·Timothy Thomas, 19, shot and killed by off-duty Cincinnati police officers, April 7, 2001.

·Ahmed Diallo, 22, shot 41 times and killed by New York City police officers, Feb. 4, 1999.

·Robert Russ Sr., 22, was one of two unarmed civilians shot and killed by Chicago police in a single week, June 1999.

·Gonzalo Martinez, 26, shot and killed by Downey, Calif. police, Feb. 15, 2002.

·Nathanial Jones, 41, died after being beaten by Cincinnati police, Nov. 30, 2003.

These cases are only a small percentage of the more than 300 unarmed citizens killed each year by police officers who claim they had no other option than to use a service firearm or other means of lethal force.

“Other options,” however, to bring people under submission have been made available to various police departments across the country. In the western United States, there is a sweeping trend by police districts to adopt nonlethal weapons.

According to the San Diego Tribune, more than 1,200 policing agencies have begun using PepperBall guns.

The PepperBall Gun is a semi-automatic, high pressured-air launcher that fires balls containing the strongest, hottest pharmaceutical-grade irritant available.

In October, San Carlos, Calif., police began carrying taser guns, opposite their firearms. The taser sends 50,000 volts of electric shock into the nervous system, completely incapacitating a subject. Officials from the Phoenix Police Department began using taser guns in 2002.

Since its implementation, there has been a 50 percent decrease in the number of shootings by police officers. And in San Diego, where officer-involved shootings are among the highest in the country, police districts are retraining their officers in sensitivity and deployment of nonlethal weaponry.

Nationally, only 1,000 of the 18,000 police agencies currently supply nonlethal devices to officers based on a variety of poor reasons. Major cities of the Midwest and Atlantic regions argue they are sticking to their guns, no pun intended, due to tight city budgets, the lack of training and most importantly, doubt.

Its troubling when the use of nonlethal weapons becomes an oxymoron for police in cities such as: Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York, Philadelphia, Portland, Providence, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., where police-involved deaths continue to rise. It seems those sworn to protect and serve are ignoring a proven remedy.

According to a 2002 Associated Press report, a majority of U.S. law enforcement agencies do carry Mace or pepper spray. But officers believe the chemical aerosols don’t pack enough punch to subdue suspected criminals. So, are police trained to believe that the only alternative is to shoot or pound the culprit to death?

Part of the problem lies in the lack of training in defensive tactics and nonlethal artillery. Officers often reach for their holsters because training goes out the door during challenging confrontations. Police must be properly educated in understanding how to best handle all situations. But perhaps the ultimate cure is in the eradication of police officers who sidestep proper training practices. In any other profession, the incompetent are let go. Unfortunately, in law enforcement, someone has to die before incompetence is realized.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

"empty pipe"?

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In the old days, some LEO's and especially citizens who carried firearms, and home owners would leave out a bullet and rest the hammer on the empty chamber. In the old days you could tap the gun hammer with a heavy object and fire the bullet in the chamber.

An empty pipe is leaving the chamber empty to avoid accidents..

[CHICAGOFARMER]

I also doubt the numbers. I recall another thread where the number of unjustified shootings by police per year was give as about 30, or 10% of the above figure

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When I find the file on my hard disk I will post.

[Judith Anne]

You used my comment not to reply to it, but to make a couple more additional points, unsourced, just "well-known."

According to you.

Not a thread I want to be on. I thought it would be interesting, but I see it isn't.

[Cultural Jihad]

So your brother regularly beat you up, and for that you blame cops?

[narses]

"There are about 450,000 LEO's in the US."

So, assuming the numebrs are correct, less than 1% of all LEO's are involved in fatal shootings each year. In 1999, the latest year for which figures are available, researchers found that 43.8 million people — including people who called to report a crime — had contact with police. What percent were involved in fatal shootings? .0003?

[CHICAGOFARMER]

"To many here, LEO's can do no wrong."

And many here think LEO's are always wrong.

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amen

[dasboot]

About "ninja SWAT" guys, and the "broad brush" with which some paint them:

Allow me to tell you about the leader of my department's SWAT team.

He is Sergeant Arthur S. He is a Vietnam vet, shot in the leg there. He is the yahoo that got the assignment to storm a house where a friend of the chief was holed up with a gun several years ago. He got shot in the chest for his service...he was saved by his vest. The shooter's life was saved. He is an ARMY Reserve platoon leader who was plopped in the middle of the Iraqi desert in 91 for six months doing recon. He was next to that huge ammo dump that got blown up with all those bad chemicals that gave a lot of guys 'syndromes'. He never got sick or complained. He just got back from Iraq again. He was doing house raids in Bahgdad searching for members of the '52' and their followers and weapons. Shot at every day for several months. He's still a little shook, but he'll be allright. He is the nicest guy you'd ever meet. He's my hero. And he's a guy who you all would like to have here on FR.

Their not all the same, cops.

[narses]

Insanity. The "empty pipe" was used before modern guns were developed. An unloaded gun "an empty pipe" is a dangerous thing to carry. When on duty I want a fully loaded, modern firearm. Aim a gun at me and you are suicidal.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

Close 40 drown in buckets and 80 drown in tubs.
That is why we should ban buckets and tubs.

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Now you get the point. Baning firearms, banning buckets, banning tubs, will solve nothing.

Training, policy, procedure will help.

Just remember when an LEO drawn down on you that you are at extreme risk.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

Insanity. The "empty pipe" was used before modern guns were developed. An unloaded gun "an empty pipe" is a dangerous thing to carry. When on duty I want a fully loaded, modern firearm. Aim a gun at me and you are suicidal.

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I was waiting for someone to figure this one out. A loaded gun with no bullets in the pipe is not unloaded.


Same here aim a loaded gun at me and you will get the same results. The five rules of self defense should have kicked in long before this point is reached.

[templar]

How many of these people were in the process of resisting arrest?

Probablly most of them. At least on the police report. The others were probably making threatening moves against the police (again, at least on the police report). Like that Boy scout that got gunned down by the FBI.

[Porterville]

You know damn well that people on FR are not DUer's. Don't disparage my brother (I'd like to call you a name) clearly you follow blindly whatever you are bent on.... you are one of those with blinders as dangerous as a liberal.... p.s. I currently am about 6 months into the fire service and see what many/ not all, but many 1/2, are made of... what do you do that gives you such authority to judge FReepers who have an opinion about the "largess of government"???

[Porterville]

That is police officers are made of, most firefighters are damn solid.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

He is the nicest guy you'd ever meet. He's my hero. And he's a guy who you all would like to have here on FR.

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This is one of the good guys. Amen

Bless his service to our country.

[narses]

"A loaded gun with no bullets in the pipe is not unloaded."

It isn't ready to fire. It is meaningless in an emergency.

[yooper]

If your typing and proof-reading are indicative of your blood alcohol content, I'd stay home tonight;)

In all seriousness, I find your 300 stat highly suspect. The media jump on every single case of innocent deaths caused by police; I don't recall 300 such stories in the 40 odd years I've been around. If such a stat were true we'd be hearing about such deaths almost every night on the liberal news, and believe me, if it was true Dan and Ted and Peter would be on it 24-7.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

"A loaded gun with no bullets in the pipe is not unloaded."

It isn't ready to fire. It is meaningless in an emergency.


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Nothing like the sound of a racking 12 gauge shotgun as the perp walks to my bedroom. Think again. What would you do as you heard my 12 guage shotgun racking. If you would have shot before the racking of the shotgun, you are dealing in fancy world, where you just shot your family member. You never shoot until you have identified your target.

[eno_]

China has less than half as many police per capita as we do. The cost of corruption in China is lower than our cost of taxation. In China, "the mountains are high and the Emperor is far away," while we have a beautiful Constitution - if only our government would stay within its authorization.

Sadly, we use too much of our own wealth to diminish our freedom.

[dasboot]

About 'non-lethal' weapons:

My department began using 'beanbag' equipped shotguns about two years ago. These have saved a couple lives already. They work. One guy who tried his dangnest to get shot to death ended up with five nasty bruises on his thighs instead of on the ME's slab. He was major drugged-up, and it took five beanbags to convince him that he was in actual pain. Cogent bad guys are convinced more readily.

The trick is to use this force appropriately. Training is on-going and getting honed to a keen edge. All good.