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Whew.. here we go again. But I'm home now so...

I'm gonna cheat and just refer to your text by paragraph number, starting with paragraph 1.

Yes, I am satisfied. Because the truly important things (to me, at least) are generally enforced. Every sane person knows that it's not a good thing to allow a person to run around lopping people's heads off with an axe.. or steal their property or rape them or beat them up or whatever. So society finds ways to put a stop to such things. Do they always succeed? Do people still get beat up or killed? Are there still thieves? Of course but by and large, in a successful society, such things are the exception not the rule. If "sins" like homosexuality, the worship of pagan gods or idols etc. are not enforced, that doesn't bother me. For example, I find homosexuality to be repugnant and against nature but hardly a crime in and of itself.

P2: No, I would not resort to metaphysical arguments. No sane society would decriminalize murder so the point is moot. And, of course bad things have happened. You seem to speak in absolutes. Society does it's best to keep such from happening. It matters whether people pay because if they did not then a larger number of people who "reject the contract" would feel free to act out their anti-social urges.

Hmm, I got a little lost there, paragraph-wise. But lastly, I care about the human race because I'm part of it. Except for certain exceptions, I rather like humans. I also think we're hard wired to perpetuate the species. I don't care what the random, meaningless, self-existent material universe thinks about it.

Thanks for forcing me to think out my arguments a little. However, I don't see much point in continuing this any further. Freepmail me if you like.

Wow, can you still see John Lennon back there somewhere? :)

I think we have each stated our positions sufficiently and agree with you that there is little reason to continue our argument, except to note that you expect the State to enforce human hang-ups rather than decrees of the Creator. Yuck. That is one thing you apparently have in common with the late, unlamented Lennon (and with Thomas Jefferson, for that matter).

I do not spell out "G-d" out of reverence for one of the Divine Names.