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To: marshmallow
I think one has to distinguish here, between the redrawing of borders on an entire continent and the question of Palestinian refugees. There is an issue of scale which makes the former entirely impractical while the latter may not necessarily be so.

I think it is imminently more practical to redraw the borders of Europe on a massive scale than it is to allow the Palestinians into Israel. In 2003 Germans are unlikely to go to war with Poles, and Poles are unlikely to kill Belarussians. Palestinians would, without a doubt, murder or expel the Jewish population if the took control. DOn't believe it? Look what happened to the Jews of every Arab country. In 1948 there were 900,000 Jews in the Arab world. Today there are less than 8,000, and most would leave if their governments didn't force them to stay. Look what has happened to the surviving Jewish community in Iraq (all 32 of them) since the war there. Most immediately immigrated to Israel.

With respect to the formation of Israel and the partition of Palestine, I understood Arab objection to be based on the fact that the Partition Plan granted 55 percent of Palestine to the Jews, who at that time comprised only 30 percent of the population, and who owned a mere 6 percent of the land.

Incorrect. The British mandate of Palestine comprised modern Jordan and Israel. The vast majority was separated to form an Arab state in 1922. The rest was to go to Israel. The Peel Commission partition plan (1937) gave Jews 18% of the land. The larger percentage given in 1947 by the U.N. that you claim includes the area that was to remain under joint or international control: Jerusalem and it's environs. Finally, the U.N. was dividing British Palestine according to the actual demographics of the time. Also, where did you get your 6% ownership figure? The PLO website?

All of this is besides the point. A smaller Israel would never have satisfied the Arabs. ANY ISRAEL, no matter how tiny, was unacceptable. The 1936-37 Arab riots killed 6,000 Jews. What was the excuse then? Too much land to a Jewish state? There was no Jewish state? The Hebron Massacre (1929) which resulted in the destruction of the ancient Jewish community in that city had to do with what? Since 1920 Grand Mufti Husseini was warning that the Jews would destroy al-Aqsa, that the Jews would murder Arbas, and so on. This was all stirred up with lies because the Arabs could not tolerate Jews in their midst or ANY future Jewish state.

Furthermore, wasn't there an issue of government and who would lead it? Furthermore, wasn't there an issue of government and who would lead it? Didn't the Arabs object to a Jewish government when they (the Arabs) formed a majority?

As I said, the lines were based on demographics. The 1947 U.N. proposed borders of Israel would have resulted in a Jewish majority in Israel. Besides, you forget that the 1917 Balfour Declaration and subsequent League of Nations resolution promised ALL of Palestine west of the Jordan to the Jewish people.

Israel and the occupied territories constitute 0.1% of the land in the Middle East. Arab lands constitute 99.9%. Tell me why the Jewish people should not live in their historic homeland on that 0.1% of land.

50 posted on 12/08/2003 1:57:06 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview
Well you could express that figure as a percentage of the whole planet and it would look even more minuscule. But that's really not the issue.

To summarize your reply, you claim that no Israeli state, irrespective of size, would have been acceptable to the Palestinians at the time of partition and that they would kill you all if they returned. These are non-negotiable-type arguments and essentially impossible to refute. They can be used to override any statistics or figures which one could put forward and so I suspect we are at the end of the line here.

It's been interesting to talk with you. I hope that you may soon enjoy the peace and security which you desire. Stay safe and well.

51 posted on 12/08/2003 6:14:09 PM PST by marshmallow
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