[cyncooper]

You are correct in your analysis and your call that we adopt a smart strategy to defeat her.

The fact is, she is viewed more benignly by the average person than those of us who follow her slimy trail would like to believe.

Case in point: My sister works so catches a bit of The Today Show in the morning and then Tom Brokaw at night to get an idea of what's going on in the world. She'll ask me for the inside scoop if some story catches her attention and she senses there's more to it.

When HRC returned from Iraq and appeared with Katie Couric the appearance was roundly mocked and dissected here on FR, but when I mentioned Couric's biased approach to the questioning, my sister agreed that Katie did appear to favor Hillary, BUT, she thought HRC was NICE about George W. Bush! My sister is not a Clinton fan and would not vote for her, but that was the impression she was left with.

[Miss Marple]

Interview with Tonken's attorney. Covering the Rich pardons. Fox asks if the money went through Tonken from Rich to Clinton. Attorney won't comment but says he leaves it to reporters to speculate. (I found that answer quite interesting.) Also there is talk of the big name stars, who they won't name today, who profited from charitable fundraisers, but names will come out next week. Also, politicians profited from these charitable fundraisers.

Apparently stars and politicos were skimming from the money collected.

[Yaelle]

You are so right. Hillary is viewed quite benignly. I just spoke to my Democrat brother, who admits that he doesn't "like" Hillary but thinks she would make a great President because he says nice guys don't always make good presidents.

I have listened at my son's gymnastics class and at poolside in Hawaii as people who were reading her book discussed her. They feel for her and identify with her about "what her husband did to her." They think she is a great woman. I am not joking. There are a LOT of people out there who would vote for her.

Plus, Hillary has a secret. She KNOWS that the women's magazine and TV media have primed the pump for her. Women and girls, for the past 35 years, have been forcefed this cheerleading over women's achievements in industry and politics. Most uninformed women (and that means most women) have learned that the right answer is to want a woman President. Hillary's secret is that she knows she will get the votes of millions of women just by being a woman running for President. She will.

Don't kid yourselves. She is a formidable candidate, according to MANY. MANY.

Who thought she could WIN NEW YORK?

The only way to stop her would be serious proof of misdeeds. And she can spin all but a video of her shooting Vince. She is already chattering about the vast right wing conspiracy again. She's trying to cover everything in advance. She is very shrewd. Unelectable? When you spin right, no one is unelectable. We need to work very hard, should she become nominated at the convention, to produce clear facts that will awaken the unwashed masses to the real Hillary.

[maica]

A suggestion for any conversation that includes the 'qualities' of HRC - to those who get their info from Katy, Tom, Diane Rehm, etc (a LOT of women!) -

HRC is a classic example of Projection - she accuses others of the very things that SHE is doing. Usually they are things no Republican has even thought of doing!

When a two year old child bumps into a table and says "Mommy, the table hurt me," it is a normal two-year old thought process. When a 57 year old politician says it, she is trying to manipulate the listener.

I think that kind of logical explanation can work with some women.