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To: weaponeer
A-theist - has a LACK of a belief in a deity. This is NOT the same as a DISBELIEF. He just doesn't have the belief. This is what a lot of folks wrongly call agnostics.

Anti-theist - One who BELIEVES there is no deity. This is what most of you are (incorrectly) calling an atheist. He believes (is sure) there is no deity. Where he gets this belief, I don't know. It seems to require some faith, as he can't PROVE there is no deity, as you cannot prove a negative.

So, I wish folks would get their terminolgy consistent if they want to be able to discuss such things.

You might start with yourself regarding getting terminology correct...

Main Entry: athe·ist Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist Function: noun Date: 1571 : one who denies the existence of God - athe·is·tic /"A-thE-'is-tik/ or athe·is·ti·cal /"A-thE-'is-ti-k&l/ adjective - athe·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g- Function: noun Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW Date: 1869 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god - ag·nos·ti·cism /-t&-"si-z&m/ noun

So unless you're going to rewrite the dictionaries, an atheist is one who DENIES the existence of God. That is a claim of fact. An agnostic is one who is likely not to believe in God's existence, but one way or the other believes the truth is ultimately unknowable.

So given the facts of the real defintions, and not your personal ones that we can't all agree to shift to, you are simply incorrect.

313 posted on 12/06/2003 7:58:38 AM PST by highlander_UW
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To: highlander_UW
So unless you're going to rewrite the dictionaries, an atheist is one who DENIES the existence of God. That is a claim of fact. An agnostic is one who is likely not to believe in God's existence, but one way or the other believes the truth is ultimately unknowable. So given the facts of the real defintions, and not your personal ones that we can't all agree to shift to, you are simply incorrect.

Dictionaries don't always get it right, either. You quoted one source, there are other dictionaries. I choose to look at the original roots of the terms, not the current usage, which warps with time, and causes just this sort of problem. Whatever. I just wanted to point out that lack of belief and dis-belief are two different things. One requires faith, the other doesn't.

371 posted on 12/06/2003 3:53:20 PM PST by weaponeer
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