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Services for Autistic children under attack by Gov. Schwarzenegger !!
Marty Omoto, Legislative Director | 12/04/03 | pollywog

Posted on 12/04/2003 7:47:02 PM PST by pollywog

From: Marty Omoto, Legislative Director Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: CA UCP CAPITOL REPORT #176-2003: Senate Budget Subcommittee Hearing Rescheduled for 12/10

CALIFORNIA UCP CAPITOL REPORT #176-2003 DECEMBER 3, 2003 - Wednesday Senate Budget Subcommittee Hearing on Governor's Spending Cuts Including Lanterman Suspension, IHSS and Respite Program Elimination Scheduled for 12/10 Wednesday 11:00 AM - Protest Rally Set for 10 AM

The Senate Budget Subcommittee #3 on Health and Human Services, chaired by Sen. Wes Chesbro (D-Arcata) has rescheduled the informational hearing on Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's current year budget cuts for December 10, Wednesday morning at 11:00 AM in the State Capitol, Room 4203. The hearing will cover the Governor's health and human services related cuts proposed by the Governor, including suspension of the landmark Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services Act - the civil rights act that protects people with developmental disabilities, proposed elimination of many programs including respite (for people with developmental disabilities), enrollment caps and waiting lists for a wide range of health programs - including regional center services, elimination of the In-Home Supportive Services residual program which employs parents and other family members to provide assistance to family members with disabilities.

Advocates for people with developmental and other disabilities and others - furious with the proposed cuts and suspension of the Lanterman Act, are mobilizing across the state, with protests and rallies. A large protest rally, planned for today (Dec 3) to coincide with hearings that were scheduled for today but postponed, is now planned for December 10, Wednesday morning at 10 AM on the North Steps of the State Capitol. For more information contact Marty Omoto at 916/446-0013 for more details (or send email to address below).

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's Department of Finance released Tuesday late afternoon actual draft legislation (referred to as "trailer bills") that details his proposals announced last week to suspend the landmark Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services Act - the civil rights act that protects people with developmental disabilities in California, along with draft language covering proposed massive cuts to Medi-Cal, regional center funded services, In-Home Supportive Services and other programs. These cuts, proposed for the current year budget that California is now operating under, were announced last week as part of the Governor's package of proposals to address the state's fiscal crisis.

The Governor's proposals all require approval of both houses of the Legislature. The Senate Budget subcommittees - including the subcommittee that deals with health and human service programs were all scheduled to hold initial hearings Wednesday, December 3 on the Governor's spending cut proposals, however due to the urgency to pass the proposed bond and spending cap measures, those hearings were postponed, possibly until next week.

The draft legislation from the Governor stunned advocates for people with developmental and other disabilities, already reeling from what one parent called an absolutely "devastating" proposal to suspend the historic Lanterman Act and includes the following: * Would make drastic changes to the authority of a person's "individual program plan" by allowing regional centers to ignore any requirements in order to keep within their individual budgets. * In addition, the draft language proposes even tighter restrictions on spending for individual regional centers that fund services provided by community based organizations and others by prohibiting any overspending of their individual budgets for any reason. * It also appears that this draft language would propose to limit who could receive regional center services to the caseload of individual regional centers as of December 31, 2003 - and just a statewide caseload total.

DRAFT LANGUAGE TO SUSPEND THE LANTERMAN DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES SERVICES ACT AND LIMIT THE NUMBER OF CONSUMERS SERVED BY REGIONAL CENTERS (Draft submitted to Legislature 12/2/03) Welfare and Institutions Code Section 1. Section 4631.6 of the Welfare and Institutions Code is added to read:

(a) (1) It is the intent of the Legislature to limit the caseload of the regional centers to the total number of individuals served by regional centers as of December 31, 2003. (2) Effective January 1, 2004, notwithstanding any provision of law or regulation, including but not limited to, the Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services Act and the California Early Intervention Services Act, the total number of consumers for whom each regional center provides service coordination, develops an individual program plan or purchase of services or supports may not exceed the total number of consumers who were served by that regional center on December 31, 2003. However, regional centers shall continue to provide each individual with intake and assessment and shall determine whether each individual would be eligible for services if the caseload were not limited. (3) Effective January 1, 2004, no regional center may make new consumers eligible for services unless and until attrition occurs at that regional center. In determining which consumers are to be added to the regional center's caseload, the regional centers shall give priority to those consumers whose health or safety is jeopardized.

(b) The prohibitions contained in subdivision (a) shall not apply to consumers transitioning from a developmental center or state- operated facility pursuant to a community placement plan.

(c) (1) It is the intent of the Legislature that regional centers shall not exceed the amount appropriated for regional center services in the annual Budget Act, even if the result is that consumers with developmental disabilities are denied services or supports that have been included in the consumer's individual program plan. (2) Notwithstanding any provision of law or regulation, including, but not limited to, the Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services Act and the California Early Intervention Services Act, no regional center may expend more than the amount allocated in that center's contract with the State Department of Developmental Services for that fiscal year. (3) Each regional center shall have the authority to deny, modify, reduce or terminate services to any consumer, including, but not limited to, those services and supports identified in the consumer's individual program plan. (4) Unless required by the Social Security Act or Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, none of the provisions of Chapter 7, section 4700 et seq., including the right to fair hearing, shall apply to any consumer whose services or supports have been denied, modified, reduced or terminated pursuant to this section.

Section 2. Section 4631.7 of the Welfare and Institutions Code is added to read:

Unless required by the Social Security Act or Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, effective January 1, 2004, notwithstanding any provision or law or regulation, including but not limited to, the Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services Act, consumers receiving services through the Habilitation Services Program may not transition to a day program with an employment component or to service codes 055 and 063, unless the consumer is unsuccessful in the Habilitation Services Program.

Section 3. This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety within the meaning of Article IV of the Constitution and shall go into immediate effect. The facts constituting the necessity are: In order to make the necessary statutory changes to implement budget reductions relating to public social services during the 2003- 04 fiscal year, it is necessary that this bill take effect immediately.

DRAFT LANGUAGE ON REGIONAL CENTER SERVICE ELIMINATIONS (Draft submitted to Legislature 12/2/03) Welfare and Institutions Code Add Section 4659.1 (a) Effective January 1, 2004, notwithstanding any provision of law or regulation, including but not limited to, the Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services Act and the California Early Intervention Services Act, no regional center may expend purchase of service funds for any existing or new consumer for any of the following services or supports: respite, social recreation activity, social recreation program, camp, or non-medical therapy.

(b) The services and supports identified in subsection (a) include the following service codes as contained in or established pursuant to Title 17, California Code of Regulations, sections 54340 through 54356: 008, 028, 072, 084, 106, 525, 625, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, and 850; and, to the extent that the service is for the purpose of providing respite, the following service codes: 074, 405, 415, 420, 707, 740, 742, 743, 744, 760, 851, 854, 856, 858, 860, 862, 864, 868, 869, 905, 910, 915, 920, 925, 930, 935, and 940.

(c) Unless required by the Social Security Act or Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, no consumer whose services or supports have been denied, modified, reduced or terminated pursuant to this section shall have a right to a fair hearing as described in Chapter 7, section 4700 et seq., and the regional center shall not comply with Chapter 7, section 4700 et seq. if it denies, modifies, reduces or terminates a service or support pursuant to this section.

NEXT STEPS * SENATE: postponed budget subcommittee hearings scheduled for 12/3 but may reschedule for next week to consider the Governor's proposals. Passage of many of the Governor's proposals are very uncertain. * ASSEMBLY: the Assembly budget subcommittees did not schedule hearings this week - and may meet next week, and as in the Senate - passage of many of the Governor's proposals is very uncertain. * GOVERNOR - Schwarzenegger is hoping for swift passage not only of his proposed spending cap and bond measures (the deadline for that is December 5 in order to qualify for the March 2004 primary ballot) but for his spending reduction proposals - many of which assume passage by January 2004. The Governor's Department of Finance is urging quick passage in order to achieve the greatest savings for the current year budget.

FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS CA UCP CAPITOL REPORT * This is a online report for all Californians with developmental (& other disabilities), families, providers and other advocates, from the California Coalition of United Cerebral Palsy Associations a link to the California Community Advocacy Network. * If you would like to get on this distribution (and conversely, get off of it) please send an email with that request to: martyomoto@r... Sharing information is part of our organizing effort. Please feel free to forward or copy this (attribution is nice). We're all in this together! Marty Omoto, Legislative Director - CA Coalition of United Cerebral Palsy Associations 1225 8th Street Suite 480 Sacramento, CA 95814 VOICE PHONE: 916/446-0013 FAX number: 916/446-0026 email: martyomoto@r... Coalition Chair: Philip Ksarjian (UCP of Greater Sacramento) Past Chair: Ron Cohen (UCP of LA and Ventura Counties)

PROTEST RALLY NOW SCHEDULED FOR: 12/10/03 10:00 AM NORTH STEPS OF STATE CAPITOL "FIGHT FOR THE PROMISE FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND SENIORS!" and then come and attend and testify at the Senate Budget Subcommittee hearing that will consider the Governor's spending cut proposals at 11:00 AM.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: autism; calgov2002; california; catrans; coercedcharity; governor; schwarzenegger
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To: Siamese Princess
Most autistic people suffer from fits, though they are not epileptic.

Those 'fits' they suffer are anger, rage. They (collective autistics) have a very real problem conveying their emotions.

Anger is the 'squeaky wheel' we all recognize. It's effective.

Perhaps they normally died young before the invention of all kinds of medicines.

There is no cure...medicine will not help...Autistics are Uber-focused. No outside help available...they are true to themselves.

Perhaps if you had a child with autism, you'd understand there is no health deficiency/problems. This is not Downs or Fragile X.

Perhaps they normally died young before the invention of all kinds of medicines.

Perhaps their parents, unable to 'deal' with their 'troublesome' behavior, left them 'in the woods' to let "Nature take its' course."

Not me.

161 posted on 12/07/2003 9:34:43 PM PST by Miss Maam ("Ain't no sunshine when he's gone." to my beloved Ethan)
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To: Miss Maam
I'm still surprised at some of the things I see posted on FR. *Sigh*
162 posted on 12/07/2003 9:39:05 PM PST by Howlin
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To: fly_so_free
Here, here!

while the mother is trained to do the procedures, she does not sleep at night, because the child must be cared for at all hours

I have never asked for nor received services from 'The State.'

Autism is hell.

this is a good, and worthy program. It also saves the state money in the long run- but by far the biggest benefit is that it allows these children to stay with their families

Well said.

163 posted on 12/07/2003 10:23:55 PM PST by Miss Maam ("Ain't no sunshine when he's gone." to my beloved Ethan)
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To: FreedomCalls
(ME)Our Autistic 7 yr old son just got authorized for physical therapy we requested help with 2 years ago. Great, know any PT's that will drive 200 miles to handle that therapy? We don't.

(YOU)If he were my son, I would drive him the 200 miles to the therapist. Why can't you? Here in West Texas, we think nothing of driving 250 miles just to go shopping or to eat at an Olive Garden for goodness' sakes.

We have taken our son to every expert between PHX and San Diego. So don't worry, we aren't neglecting his needs. The point was simply, there are very few services available, even if you live in PHX.

The private providers are so busy you get on a waiting list and wait. The state was so concerned it took them 2 years to just process the physical needs claim for the kid.

With Autism, that 2 years is lost to helping the child to become functional to some degree. Parents can't afford to lose a single day in caring for Autistic kids needs. It's not a matter of laziness on our part, it's a matter of we drive the 200 miles, and there's no services available.

To top that off, a change of environment for Autistic kids is about as traumatic to them as it can get. Car rides of 3 hours and then exploring new locations are an event in themselves. Autsitic kids have to be introduced to new things and environments in a slow gradual way.

Then there is the problem of office lighting. Flourescent lighting bothers Autistic kids, as they see more detail than we "normal" folks do. The best lighting for them are plain old light bulbs. Autistic people have very special needs that the average person doesn't even think about and doesn't take into consideration.

So that little 200 mile trip can do more damage to the kid by traumatizing him due to overexposure, to people, strange environments, elevators, traffic, road noise and so on.

It took us a year to be able to take him into a store like Target for instance. We had to go late at night when there weren't many folks inside. Walk him inside, then out again and back home. We eased him into the environment a little further each time, always standing on both sides of him, holding his hands for security and to calm him.

At least now he can go into a moderately quiet store. Forget Walmart, Sears or anywhere for that matter where it's busy. And then there's those damned flourescent lights they all have.

I'm not complaining, but if we don't look out for his needs, then it sure as hell won't be the state or the school district or most anyone else. No one seems to give a crap about developmentally disable kids, except parents of those kids, a few doctors/therapists. I don't expect other parents to even be concerned, but people had better start getting boned up on this stuff, cause it can strike anyone's family.

And yes we have teamed together with other parents to share info, contacts, give and get advise, and fight the battle for the kids.

Autism is on the rise in America and that rise cannot be explained by the so-called experts. In my place of employment there are many families with Autistic children. And that is not unusual for a lot of places.

Maybe it's in the water, or the dust in the air? Maybe it's the fast food, or grandma's apple pie? Take a guess, then you can be an expert too. No one knows.

Sorry to go on a rant. But someone has too.

These Autistic kids are not stupid, they are quite intelligent, but they seldom have communication skills that are equal to their ages, which makes it difficult to tell what their needs really are. It's an adventure!

164 posted on 12/07/2003 10:55:51 PM PST by Tactical
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To: FreedomCalls
>Autism is one of the hardest handicaps to deal with.

>>And people never dealt with autism before the government took over?

Aw come on. Of course Autism was dealt with in the old days. They called them "INSANE ASYLUMS". You know, those private places where the inmates were often physically and mentally abused in the old days?

Autistic kids aren't nuts, nor insane. They just can't express their thoughts because they are so entangled in their brains.

If I told you to look 'UNDER' the table for something. You'd know exactly what to do. For an Autistic kid, they have to work that simply direction through various paths to get the same understanding. They might think 'UNDER", ok what is 'UNDER', a submarine, then they picture a submarine to evaluate the direction. Put that with the words look and table and then can look under the table.

But to folks that don't know....well those kids must be crazy and need to be in a nut house. When in reality, parents and doctors need help in working out those problems with the kids.

Go down to your local elementary school and hang out in the special education classes. What you'll see are a few teacher aides doing their best to work with these kids with no training or guidance, unless it is forced on them by a court order.

But ignor that stuff, watch the kids. Learn something.

165 posted on 12/07/2003 11:15:27 PM PST by Tactical
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To: Tactical
Sorry folks, I am replying to myself because there are several points being made in this discussion.

1. People must be responsible for themselves, their own families and the actions or inactions of said families.

2. People cannot rely on a government agency and tax dollars to pay for or provide assistance they might need.

3. California and many other states are plain old broke, cuts have to be made rather than increase taxes.

4. Tough luck to parents in their 60's/70's who have developmentally disabled children, find someone who will help you, on your own. It's your problem and you should handle it.

5. Those same older parents, who worked all of their adult lives and paid in Social Security, and now are trying to live on that meager income, should not only do that, but pay for their disabled childs care and needs out of their pocket for the rest of their lives. Even if that means they have to live in a tent on the river and eat the fish they can catch.

6. When those parents die, someone can come along and drown the kid because no one is going to take care of them and we can't have those kind of people roaming the streets, annoying us healthy over-taxed people.

7. Everyone has a different perspective. You can't argue with another persons perspective, because everyone is right, at least in their own minds.

8. This discussion has served it's purpose, divide a group of people into categories and thus divide their cause, known as conservativism.

9. Who needs opponents, when we have ourselves.

See what I mean? This discussion has gotten silly.

Of course we all care about Autistic children/adults. Families of developmentally disabled kids aren't living off of the public teat. They are overwhelmed by the tasks they are trying to endure. They work, they pay taxes, they have no free time, no dinners, no movies, no private time with each other. When they aren't working they are taking care of the child with his or her special needs.

Plain simple and direct.

No one is asking you to pay or take over the care of their children. They're just asking for some trained support to give them some help in teaching, caring and training their child, so that one day he or she will be somewhat functional to live some kind of productive, happy life.

If they can get that help from volunteers, then that would be wonderful. But they are few and far between, while developmentally disabled kids are not. The services sought by those parents are there, but those programs are full or have a waiting list of applicants. Or they just can't afford the services.

What the hell do those parents do then? Go on tell them to put some untrained volunteer, friend or whoever into the environment and turn them loose with the child.

Now you have exposed your child to danger, because that volunteer doesn't know crapola about what to do if this or that happens.

Those parents are in a precarious position. They are just like those other parents when it comes to paying taxes and government waste. That's why they are members of Free Republic, they are like minded individuals.

Yet some here, aren't listening. They are one minded, not listening to the needs being expressed. Those parents are overwhelmed by the tasks before them. If the experts, the Doctors, psychiatrists, therapists, don't know how to help, or those that can help aren't available to help, then what? Do we open up the insane asylums again and locked all of the kids up?

I have news for those of you that are of that mind. 50% of the populations in the United States have some form of a mental problem. That's right 50%. Don't believe me, ask a psychiatrist, or the FBI or whoever you feel like you can trust. But it's true. Where do you draw the line in those people not having the ability to have some form of mental and or physical health care? Maybe it gets down to all of those folks with a mild form of depression. Oops! now they're draggin you off too.

You can't stop once you start. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Back in the 80's California cut mental health care funding back and they turned loose a bunch of people from the state mental hospitals. Talk to the local Welfare case workers that had to manage those folks cases. It hasn't been fun at all to have those people turned loose on society.

Anything could have happened, and anything did happen and still is happening. Many of them were/are quite dangerous, so bad in fact that some case workers had been taken hostage, had guns drawn on them, or even shot with bow and arrows!

See folks this stuff snowballs, it isn't just a matter of taxes being raised or lowered, it's a matter on what does America want it's society to be like? Is it safe to go out on the street? What happens if pollywogs son gets out of the house at night and wanders the streets?

Will the cops recognize he's Autistic? Probably not. Will he get arrested for not coooperating with the police, or will he get beaten by then because he resisted them, when he was just being Autistic? Will he walk into someone else's house, not knowing any better, trying to find his home?

I'm not being silly here, these things have happens to Autistic kids, because they got out on their own, with no one around to help them that knew anything about developmentally disabled kids.

The real purpose of this thread was to discuss the cutback in services to people that really do need help. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to fend for yourselves, that's wonderful, if someone really does need help and the untrained volunteer can't help or won't help or there are none, then shouldn't there be an option for that parent?

Don't you want the society you live in to actually be a society that cares about helping others, when they can? Isn't this more of a moral issue and wasn't America founded on certain moral standards? If you think this doesn't apply and it's all about taxes, then maybe we should take GOD's name out of everything in the American system and turn it over to the crackpot liberals. ....RANT OFF

166 posted on 12/08/2003 12:36:55 AM PST by Tactical
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To: pollywog
the needs of autism often require help from trained individuals that are able to work with special needs.

It's been 25 years. Why haven't you become a trained individual after all this time? Shame on you.

167 posted on 12/08/2003 2:20:15 AM PST by Sandy
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To: CajunConservative
If you can afford it then why can't you hire any of the workers who may lose their jobs with the budget cuts? There ARE people out there who can help even if it's not exactly what you are receiving now, any relief is better than none. Are any of the other parents financially able to afford hiring private help too? What if you all formed your own "agency" where you served as a central point of service.

Excellent ideas. Am dubious that they'll be followed up however. Easier to bemoan, bitch and demand taxpayer goodies rather than being proactive.

168 posted on 12/08/2003 2:43:47 AM PST by KantianBurke (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: Miss Maam
A close friend of mine worked first as an aide than as a teacher at a school for autistic and multi-handicapped children for about eight years. She told me a great deal about autism and the children she attempted to educate. She said that most autistics have fits, though they are not epileptics, and that they take medication for it. She even admitted that much of what she did was merely babysitting that gave the parents a break. Our mutual circle of friends all agreed that none of us could do what she did -- we lack the patience. The school certainly had a very difficult time keeping teachers and aides, despite the high salaries. My friend lasted longer than most and only left because of exasperation with the administration, not the kids.

I know there are different degrees of autism and a few "high-functioning" autistics can hold good jobs. Most however, cannot, and parents may be unable to accept that fact. They can't accept the fact that, at best, their children will work in a sheltered workshop stuffing envelopes or the like. Frankly, I do question the wisdom of continuing to try to educate an 16-year-old still in pullups! After a certain point in time, it is obvious that a child is uneducatable. If the school wants to give the parents a break, just put the kids in a big room with toys and whatnot and let them play under supervision. Attempting to "educate" them is just an exercise in futility, a waste of time and, yes, money. And, yes, I do know that they have a "right" to an education, even if it is a waste of time.

169 posted on 12/08/2003 4:09:55 AM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Tactical
What the hell do those parents do then? Go on tell them to put some untrained volunteer, friend or whoever into the environment and turn them loose with the child.

No, we need to start encouraging people to think outside the box for solutions to problems before they come along. There are solutions out there that will be beneficial for all. In this particular case there may need to be some continued state help, I don't know. I do know that we as a society do need to change our ways of dealing with the difficulties raising severely disabled children.

We have become so dependent on the government to fix things that we (society in general) can't figure out solutions for ourselves. That is scary.

170 posted on 12/08/2003 6:45:35 AM PST by CajunConservative
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To: KantianBurke
Excellent ideas. Am dubious that they'll be followed up however. Easier to bemoan, bitch and demand taxpayer goodies rather than being proactive.

Thanks! I think this issue highlights the real problem this nation faces. That is the ability to think outside the box and come up with solutions for ourselves. We have become so indoctrinated with the government solutions to our problems that when crises come up we have a very difficult time figuring things out.

I am speaking in generalities here.

171 posted on 12/08/2003 6:54:05 AM PST by CajunConservative
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To: CajunConservative
I don't depend on the government to do anything but interfere in my life. My Autistic son learns something new everyday, more than I can say for some alledged "normal" people.

It's a repetitive process, having to show an Autistic kid how to do things over and over. Phonics can't be used to teach them to read, they learn reading by whole words or sentences. But they can be taught to read. Autistic kids can operate complicated devices when properly shown how. Many are excellent as computer operators. It's all orderly and logical to them. Makes sense.

It bothers me if someone wants to just write off their education. In Arizona kids get $7,000 a year to educate them. The school district takes that $7k spreads it around the whole school. Ask for a copy of their special ed budget and you'll see what a government run-around is all about.

In the meantime the parent is grasping for anything to help their child out.

We don't have our hand out for your tax dollars, most of these parents don't. But if private help isn't available, then something needs to be done. We as a society cannot afford to just hide these people in a backroom and ignore them.

If I get too old to care for my kid, I am concerned what will happen to him. So I am already preplanning for that time. Not that I think we can afford it, but someone that won't abuse the kid and who has knowledge of his abilities, and deficits needs to be around to care for him.

If not, an innocent person, namely that autistic boy will be hurt by this society.

It may not be the problem of others in America and maybe they shouldn't be burdened by this problem? But then again maybe it is everyone's problem, morally?

172 posted on 12/08/2003 9:25:59 AM PST by Tactical
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To: Tactical
We don't have our hand out for your tax dollars, most of these parents don't. But if private help isn't available, then something needs to be done. We as a society cannot afford to just hide these people in a backroom and ignore them.

I know where you are coming from believe it or not. I have worked in "the system" as a case manager. There are all kinds of truly disabled people out there. I know there needs to be a safety net in place, I also know that by abdicating the control of the safety net to the government it makes us( just speaking in general here) mentally lazy to come up with working solutions ourselves.

What is wrong with proactively banding together with other parents/ professionals/ paraprofessionals to provide the solutions you need without depending on government agencies? My point is make it available if that is what you need. Just from reading this particular thread you aren't the only one with a need in this area.

173 posted on 12/08/2003 10:54:55 AM PST by CajunConservative
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To: Tactical
What I want to know is, why do these organizations all need to be tax-funded? I think the reason that most places don't offer private services is because the government insists on involving itself. People are now very dependent on these goverment programs, instead of having their own, stable ones. Again, I think lower-cost and higher-quality services will be done through non-government means.
174 posted on 12/09/2003 9:09:47 PM PST by anonymous86
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