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To: Michael81Dus
It´s a great discussing style to accuse others of irrationality.

If I put forward a reasoned argument warning you that you are making the same mistakes some other people made 70 years ago and all you have to say in response is, "it's tasteless and disgusting" and then argue right past it--well, I'm sorry, but that pretty much exhausts my definition of irrational.

Noone can ever "throw" his dignity away. The human being has a dignity noone, even not himself, can be taken away.

OK, so if it's impossible to act undignified, why make dignity a constitutional requirement? I suppose the untouchability of human dignity has been placed in the constitution because it is possible to "touch" (i.e. disrespect) human dignity--possible, but not right.

The only rational basis for having laws is to provide a basis for punishing actions that you can, but should not, perform.

The court ruled that this would violate Art. 1, the dwarfs were not allowed to continue.

And you think this is a good thing??

The state ALWAYS has to balance between the rights of the individual...and the needs of the society

I see. So I have a right to my life ... but the state has to "balance" it with other things. If I'm lucky enough, the state will say my right to my life is weighty enough to be kept. If the state thinks some need of society (A public TV station? A new villa for Herr Kanzler? A little more Lebensraum for the Aryan races?) outweighs my rights--well, it's tough luck, but not to worry, it's all for society, and besides, we all know that Arbeit Macht Frei...

50 posted on 12/08/2003 4:01:17 AM PST by Smile-n-Win (Let the Right do what's right, and the Left will be left behind.)
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To: Smile-n-Win; Prodigal Son
Look, you completely failed to explain the analogy between the "human dignity protection" and the Nazi era. You even fail to grant criminals rights which noone may take away.

I told you, that noone can take a humans dignity away. That doesn´t mean that one cannot act "undignified", but that you keep your dignity even when someone tries to take it from you. You can´t lose it, whatever you or others do. Even Osama bin Laden still has his human dignity. This is a lesson of the Nazi era, and we´re proud that we rate the human race so high!

I think this is the best thing of our constitution!

I see.

No, you don´t.

So I have a right to my life ... but the state has to "balance" it with other things. If I'm lucky enough, the state will say my right to my life is weighty enough to be kept. If the state thinks some need of society (A public TV station? A new villa for Herr Kanzler? A little more Lebensraum for the Aryan races?) outweighs my rights--well, it's tough luck, but not to worry, it's all for society, and besides, we all know that Arbeit Macht Frei...

You haven´t understand anything I explained to you! The state respects, defends and enforces the constitution. Every citizen has the right to call the Constitutional Court in case he feels that his basic rights (including the human dignity) are violated.

There´s no room for violating the basic rights in this process of balancing, except: the needs of the society. And it´s surely not a need of the society that the Chancellor gets a new estate.

Do your own business, or read our constitution. I don´t have to explain you the German basic rights for free. This is too complicated to tell you in a minute.

Good luck on your way ignoring and insulting the others! That´s exactly the way to make new friends.

Prodigal Son, wanna have a good laugh? Read the comments about todays Germany being equally bad (or even worse) compared to the Nazi era, very cool stuff here!! :-D

52 posted on 12/08/2003 7:40:16 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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