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To: Doctor Stochastic; Alamo-Girl
But even in principle, one cannot predict Brownian motion. Measuring instruments small enough to measure the motion are subject to Brownian motion themselves.

To some extent the scientists and the non-scientists are arguing somewhat at cross purposes. You seem to be arguing, as I am, that a system can be said to be deterministic if we can model it - that is, if we can set up a computation that predicts its behavior. By this standard, sure, Brownian motion is not deterministic; and if it will ever feasible to model a human brain, we're a long way from even being able to demonstrate the possibility.

Alamo-Girl is taking a Platonist view; that if the system works according to a set of physical laws, it is deterministic, because it's theoretically possible (even if utterly infeasible) to predict its behavior at any point in time. As I noted earlier, QM says that if the wavefunction of the universe is psi, then d psi/dt is just -i*hbar*H*psi, and it's just a very big Runge Kutta problem. :-)

Maybe we should make a distinction between empirical determinism and essentialist determinism.

874 posted on 12/10/2003 1:20:54 PM PST by Right Wing Professor ((who does not commute with the rest of the Universe))
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To: Right Wing Professor
It's a big Runga-Kutta problem unless a "measurement" takes place.
875 posted on 12/10/2003 1:25:02 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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