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To: Ichneumon; Leonine; cyborg
Stay on topic. Stay on Earth. We weren't talking about Mars here. This is a comparative biology discussion. While your pictures are nice and certainly out of this world, they are also outside of this discussion and hence, are irrelevant.

I know it must be uncomfortable for evolutionists to face their frauds. Face them you must, however. Intellectual honesty demands it.

As anyone who has acheived any rudimentary accomplishment in the field of biological study knows -- whether they be evolutionists or creationists -- Haekel purposefully and fraudulently used the same woodcut to represent cross-species embryos in his work, Natural History of Creation (Naturliche Schopfungsgeschichte)(1868). This was no innocent mistake on his part. Haekel's fraud was outted by Rutimeyer, a contemporary professor of zoology at University of Basel.

Haekel was called on his fraud then and there, his factual misreprsentation was exposed, and Haekel shortly afterword as much as admitted to the purposefulness of his mis-representation. Most evolutionists today do not defend Haekel's obvious fraud, and recognize it for what it was. You needn't feel compelled to run Martian interference on your own for him, and you can still be a practicing evolutionist, if you like. Haekel has simply done you a scientific dis-service.

The Haekel fraud exposure, if it is nothing else, is really quite instructive. Sadly, wedded as they are more to a premise than they are to examining scientific evidence -- particularly readily observable evidence that debunks their premise, or the abyssmal lack of evidence to support their premise (the facts be damned; premise uber alles!), the honest debate of scientific observations still continues to be for many evolutionists, a very difficult thing.

225 posted on 12/04/2003 10:35:09 AM PST by Agamemnon
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To: Agamemnon
I know it must be uncomfortable for evolutionists to face their frauds. Face them you must, however. Intellectual honesty demands it.

Agreed. Now if only you'd agree with the same statement, substituting "evolutionists" with "creationists," we can get somewhere.
228 posted on 12/04/2003 10:42:31 AM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: Agamemnon
I know it must be uncomfortable for evolutionists to face their frauds.

Uh, who here is denying, defending or excusing any fraud? Piltdown was a fraud (hoax), Haekel's embryos were fraudulent (willful distortion), and there are others that no one will deny. None of this excuses representing things that were not fraudulent (e.g. Hesperopithecus, Ramapithecus) as though they were. This is what is being responded to. Calling things "frauds" which are not fraudulent is as intellectually dishonest (and as damaging to truth) as excusing fraud.

You ought not adopt the high horse attitude while muddying the issue yourself.

233 posted on 12/04/2003 10:48:05 AM PST by Stultis
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