Death of obese man (who assaulted police) ruled "homicide"

Fox News | 12/3/03 | Fox News

[zlala]

The Coroner just read a statement saying the direct cause of his death was the struggle with the police; or that them trying to subdue him and the struggle cause his death. Contributing factors included the drugs and his weight and heart condition.

[Nov3]

The Coroner just read a statement saying the direct cause of his death was the struggle with the police; or that them trying to subdue him and the struggle cause his death.

Attacking a bunch of Cops while you are amped up on cocaine and PCP and have an enlarged heart caused his death.

Cinci is going to burn - another honor student has died.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Isn't there such a thing as "justifiable homicide"? Isn't homicide only the legal definition, meaning when someone kills another, not necessarily synonymous with murder?

[WackyKat]

A lawyer on here (p-marlowe) has said it isn't a homicide.

I am a lawyer, too and I am telling you that the definition of "homicide" is a death caused by the actions of another person. Homicide does not equal murder or manslaughter, many homicides are not crimes because they are legally justified,as appears was the case here.

[xzins]

ping to #114

[LADY J]

"I don't know, it just seems there outta be a better way to deal with these things."

I wouldn't be a cop in that city for any reason. What would YOU have done when this huge guy lunged and attacked your partner in the head? Did you see the beginning of the tape and what started this?

Would you have just stood there waiting for more police to arrive? If so - we might have the cops dead instead of the man who died.

[sharkhawk]

I sat on a coroner's jury a few years ago here in Dupage county, and if I remember our instructions correctly the doctor made the right judgement. For example, a mugger sticks a gun in the face of an overweight individual, the individual dies of a heart attack, is this Homicide or Natural causes? Of course it is a homicide because the death was caused by outside forces. Is the mugger convicted of murder, possibly, although that is a separate legal judgement.

[WackyKat]

I can see you prefer the sort of coroner who "goes along to get along" with the DA and the police, and who shapes his findings to serve their interests.
I prefer physicians who retain the intellectual integrity to call'em as they see 'em, and not just be a lapdog of the prosecution

[sharkhawk]

In Illinois at least there is also a category for accidental. Car Crashes, etc.

[mewzilla]

An irreg heartbeat is not a heart attack, though. One may lead to the other, but they're two different things.

[P-Marlowe]

They only had 4 choices though. Undetermined causes (they know why he died); Suicide (he didn't actually kill himself in the sense of shooting himself and even though he had drugs in his system, the coroner said it was not a lethal amt); natural causes (dying in your sleep); or homicide.

Under no circumstances should this have been ruled a homicide. No other person caused this man's death. If those are the only 4 choices, then it was a combination of natural causes and suicide. Suicide need not be a deliberate act. If you overdose on drugs, it is a suicide, even if you didn't mean to die. If you die because you overexert yourself while being 250 pounds overweight and on drugs, then it is equally a suicide. He died because he overexerted himself. He killed himself. The police did not kill him. He ingested the drugs. He ingested 10,000 double cheeseburgers. He overexerted himself by attacking the police and resisting a lawful arrest.

To call this a homicide is reckless. There will now most likely be rioting in the streets if these police are not prosecuted. There are often dire consequences to stupidity. This man died because of his own stupidity and I would anticipate that others may die because of the coroner's stupidity.

[ican'tbelieveit]

I was listening to someone on H&C the other day saying this is only the 4th death with police involvement in 4 years. And that is in 4 million contacts with the public. (I think I have those numbers right).

I am not sure on the numbers in Denver, but I think we are close to 4 deaths just this year with police involvement.

This is just another example of the left taking advantage of the innercity poor. It breaks my heart.

[xzins]

My lawyer can take your lawyer 2 out of 3 falls. :>)

[Frank_Discussion]

Number 1: If a nutball on drugs won't quit trying to hurt you, and two against one isn't working, weapons become necessary. You apply them until the attacker is subdued or runs away. In the case if the police, the duty to apprehend an attacker nullifies the whole "runs away" thing. It may not be pretty, but it's sometime necessary. Weapons AND two policement were not enough, and more police had to help subdue the unwise and portly gent. If that is beyond your comprehension, I can't help you.

That said, I agree that we don't need to have centurions roaming the streets, either. Most cops I have met have been quite patient and kind, though I've met some rude ones. Just like the rest of the population.

Number 2: Why did you direct your post at me?

[WackyKat]

I sat on a coroner's jury a few years ago here in Dupage county, and if I remember our instructions correctly the doctor made the right judgement. For example, a mugger sticks a gun in the face of an overweight individual, the individual dies of a heart attack, is this Homicide or Natural causes? Of course it is a homicide because the death was caused by outside forces. Is the mugger convicted of murder, possibly, although that is a separate legal judgement.

You received correct jury instructions on the definition of homicide and it is obvious you did understand them

The problem is that p-marlowe is one of those people who thinks that the police are a privileged class to whom the law should not apply as it does to the rest of us

[xzins]

This man died because of his own stupidity and I would anticipate that others may die because of the coroner's stupidity.

Sadly, you are probably right.

I'm staying away from downtown now during the Christmas season. See how this plays out. Pray for real cold weather.

[ican'tbelieveit]

My point being is that there are ways to test for these problems by particular hormones being in the blood.

[ArrogantBustard]

Looks like I called this one right.

[octobersky]

I'm only speculating here but my guess is that even when the deceased was sedentary his heart had to really struggle to pump life-giving oxygen to all his billions of extra cells. Factor in the drugs and the violent struggle with police and it is no surprise that his heart said no can do. I hope the authorities don't blame this death on those officers who were clearly just doing their job.

[Stewart_B]

They used to call it "sherm" back in the eighties. Druggies would take Kool cigarettes and soak them in PCP. Made them very aggressive, impervious to pain, paranoid and psychopathic.

A real joy to LEO's and anyone else whose path they crossed.

[bmwcyle]

Death due to stupidity by a black man.