Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Stryker: US Military`s Great White Hope against Iraqi RPGs
DebkaFile ^ | December 03, 2003

Posted on 12/03/2003 6:18:49 AM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker

At Camp Udairi in Kuwait, US armament technicians are working extra-hard in giant hangars on a Christmas gift for US troops plagued by guerrilla attacks in Iraq. It is the Stryker, an eight-wheel drive armored combat vehicle, the first new armored carrier to enter service in the US army since the Abrams tank was introduced in the 1980s.

DEBKAfile’s military sources quote US civil administrator Paul Bremer as informing the emergency White House consultations last month on the mounting guerrilla war in Iraq that soldiers of the US 2nd division fighting in the Baghdad area and the 4th division under constant attack in the Sunni triangle, “can’t wait to get their hands” on the Strykers.

These innovative vehicles are destined to eventually replace the heavy Abrams M1 battle tank and the Bradley M2 fighting vehicles in Iraq. They are more mobile and agile, have a far greater turn of speed, superior night visibility and unmatched high-tech instruments.

US military chiefs in Washington and Baghdad believe the Stryker, built by General Motors Defense of Canada and General Dynamics Land Systems Division of the United States, will provide American troops with a better response to the ubiquitous rocket-propelled grenade (RPG), favorite weapon of Saddam Hussein’s loyalists. They are expected to show their rapid- response mettle against the guerrillas’ agile RPG pick-up trucks, which turned up for the first time in the Samarra battle of November 30 after an absence of several months.

In that battle, heavy Iraqi casualties – the exact number is in dispute – were inflicted against pro-Saddam fighters dressed in Fedayeen uniforms.

Closely resembling a large green armadillo (see photo) , the Stryker’s slat armor “cage” is designed to trap an RPG and defuse it inches away from the vehicle’s skin - much in the way a baseball catcher’s mask protects his head from a 90-mile-an-hour fastball. The US military took its most state-of-the-art combat vehicle – already equipped with 14.5 mm-thick armor against machine gun rounds, mortars and artillery fragments -- and dressed it in a “crinoline” skirt, a green-painted steel grill bolted on to it sides. Only the Stryker’s roof and wheels remain exposed. Stryker tests have been underway for three years at Fort Lewis, Washington, where a dummy Iraqi village was built a year before the US invasion last March and where the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division trained and re-formed into the US Army’s first Stryker Brigade Combat Teams.

A vanguard force arrived in Kuwait in October and crossed into Iraq for the first real battlefield tests of the vehicles. The last of the Stryker Brigade's 5,000 soldiers arrived in Kuwait from Fort Lewis in mid-November. The brigade has 300 Strykers.

Named after Stewart Stryker, killed in action in World War Two, and Robert Stryker, a soldier killed in Vietnam, the 19-ton vehicle has eight giant tires, a range of 500 km (300 miles) and a maximum speed of 60 mph (100 km). In addition to its two-man crew, the Stryker can carry eight infantry troops or commandos.

One feature that arouses controversy among military experts is the comparatively mild punch packed by the novel contraption’s M2 0.50 caliber machine gun, 21.7 mm grenade launcher and 7.62 mm MK240 machine gun. It is also fitted with four smoke grenade launchers and a stabilizer system that enables on-the-move accurate fire.

But the vehicle is not designed for heavy combat, say its advocates. Its function is to race on its eight huge wheels to the edge of a battle zone, including urban areas, drop off infantry soldiers and lay down covering fire.

One of the Stryker’s most outstanding tools of war is its state-of-the-art digital communications system, the FBCB2, that keeps the entire fleet connected by text messaging and a GPS map network. The system – effectively a “tactical Internet” -- enables the commander of one Stryker vehicle to mark the position of enemy forces on a map for the benefit of all his fellows.

Each vehicle commander has the use of seven M45 periscopes and a thermal imager display by video camera that can identify enemy forces, including hidden snipers and RPG-toting ambush units.

The Stryker Brigade will be the first unit in history to be engaged in this way in computerized warfare. The unit coming closest to this is the “digitized” US 4th Infantry Division. A commander can click on a blue icon and electronically pinpoint for everyone else on the battle network the position of friendly forces. A click on a red icon marks the position of the enemy. No time is wasted on description and explanation. A commander does not need to go into the field and personally deploy his troops at their most effective combat points. He simply moves his resources around on a screen.

Each new brigade is furthermore equipped with a reconnaissance-intelligence battalion which consists of three times as many spotters as a regular battalion, four drones and a large array of sophisticated sensors.

The US army does not intend, in the first stage, to replace all its tanks in Iraq with Strykers. But it does want the new vehicles to back up its heavy armor on the battlefield. The army is also considering whether to use Strykers on rapid-response policing missions for urban flare-ups or spot roadblocks on intercity highways.

The novel contrivance has its critics. Some US commanders are saying that no sensor in the world, no matter how advanced, can tell the difference between a friendly civilian and a guerrilla – until the insurgent whips out a hand grenade and stares into the eyes of the Stryker’s 11-man contingent. There are military engineering experts who suggest that steel spikes should be fitted to the outside of the ”cage” to deflect flying grenades or projectiles away from the vehicle. US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld is less than pleased with the vehicle. Nonetheless, Congress poured another $35 million into the defense budget in September to speed up preparations for the deployment of the 5th and 6th Stryker brigades.

And the troops in Iraq are eagerly awaiting the deployment – only weeks away – of the first Stryker brigade in Iraq. They expect casualties to rise initially when the new system is first tested in battle. Further improvements will inevitably be called for. But running-in problems aside, the shift to Strykers marks the beginning of the end of the historic role heavy tanks, such as the Abrams and Israel’s Merkava 3 and 4, have played on the battlefield. Experts believe these 70-ton behemoths-on-tracks are being reduced to the dinosaurs of modern combat and that the 19-ton, eight-wheeled Stryker is poised to leap into the breach.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: army; campudairi; debka; iraq; notbreakingnews; stryker; wheeledarmor
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-110 next last
To: NYFriend; Cannoneer No. 4
"The US army does not intend, in the first stage, to replace all its tanks in Iraq with Strykers."

That line gives me the creeps.
The Stryker was sold as a do all be all and it isn't.
And it honestly isn't the one on one tank replacement that Shinseki said it was.
And if the 'replacement' that they're talking about in this instance is swapping the tanks with Strykers to continue the tank's mission in Iraq, like having someone take your place while you do a different job, the Stryker isn't capable of that either.

It could have been a MUCH better system, like maybe give it a stabilized gun of 20 or 30mm size round.
Maybe give it some better secondary weaponry.
Give it grossly overpowered weaponry for it's size, more so than it needs, and that will improve it's survivability somewhat.
Don't use it in an IFV or MBT role and you'll keep even more people alive.
It's merely a troop carrier, and inefficient at that for reasons hashed out already.
Stryker isn't even designed to go against infantry.
It's designed to have it's crew dismount to take on the enemy while it sticks to the rear, a mildly armmored target useless for the mission.
In an urban setting, that is ridiculous.
Especially if one needs to take cover behind one's own vehicle.

On the bright side(?), if it's used by police forces in the US against civilians, no-one has weaponry that can do anything to teh Stryker.
It looks more like it was designed with situations like Ruby Ridge and Waco in mind.
41 posted on 12/03/2003 9:19:27 AM PST by Darksheare (Ignore the wombats, they're a diversion! My 3 million psychotic chinchilla army is the real threat!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Cannoneer No. 4; archy; Matthew James
These innovative vehicles are destined to eventually replace the heavy Abrams M1 battle tank and the Bradley M2 fighting vehicles in Iraq.

Yeah, and ballerinas are going to replace middle linebackers in the NFL.

42 posted on 12/03/2003 10:25:01 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Darksheare
Surely you can just shoot out the tyres, it looks hopeless in comparison to a tracked vehicle.
43 posted on 12/03/2003 10:33:09 AM PST by crazycat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Joseph_CutlerUSA
This thing looks like a piece of crap.
44 posted on 12/03/2003 10:37:51 AM PST by vikk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: crazycat
They're supposedly run flats.
However, if you set them on fire the run flat doesn't do it's job.
It can catch on fire in several ways, one of which is to shoot the external unprotected fuel tank between the last pair of wheels on each side.

It is supposedly more manueverable according to Shinseki, but it has the turning radius of a greyhound bus at best.
I dunno, gimme treads anyday, I can spin about within on evehicle length and split alot faster than someone who needs to find a traffic circle to waddle around like the Stryker needs.

I'm convinced that Shinseki's "Tires are more manueverable" comment was fueled by ignorance of being stuck up to one's axles in Fort Drum sand.
More than once my unit had that happen.
And tracked vehicles drove by with a smile, a wave, a pointed finger, and outright laughter at times.
*chuckle*
Fond memories of training now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all.
And in a combat sitch, one cannot be stuck like that at all.
Might as well paint a big red bull's eye on the vehicles and erect a huge neon sign saying "Please shoot us"

Another shortcoming of the Stryker is it's unstability on normal rolling terrain.
It is currently restricted to roads, and told to stay away from road shoulders.
It flips and rolls.
Or throws tires.
It has unrealistic restrictions on it's mobility, and that makes it useless.
So much for being more manueverable.
45 posted on 12/03/2003 10:43:33 AM PST by Darksheare (Ignore the wombats, they're a diversion! My 3 million psychotic chinchilla army is the real threat!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: NYFriend
Kind of like using chain link fence around fixed position. If I'm not mistaken, the slant armor they're talking about won't stop income RPG fire 'like a catchers mask', but will explode the shell to diffuse the jet of molten metal that penetrates conventional armor.

Sometimes. But like the Vietnam-era chainlink fencing *RPG screens* the reail idea is to cause the outside metal shell of the PG-7 rocket to become dented and come in contact with the copper shaped charge liner, since both are used as electrical contacts for the piecoelectric crystal in the rocket's nose that when crushed, creates enough of an electrical charge to detonate the electrical blasting cap and booster charge at the back of the warhead. If the two metallic components are in contact they short out and no explosion results, in practice, about 50% of the time when chain link screen is used; the slats may do a little better or not quite as well.

Some rounds, no doubt, will detonate on the outside if the slats themselves if they hit just right. Whether the stand-off distance will be enough to reduce the shaped charge's armor-cutting effect or will more effectively focus it to cause even more damage will be another question soon to be answered. If the slat armor is suddenly removed fron the vehicles in service, we'll know the answer.

The addition of the slat armor now raises the weight of a loaded Stryker squad carrier in excess of 23 tons, no longer 19. It'll also be interesting to see if the truck-component axles, designed for a 15-ton truck load, can handle the additional overload.

-archy-/-

46 posted on 12/03/2003 10:51:00 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Darksheare
Mny Tks yr reply.

An "exposed fuel tank".

Just great.

As to the fact that it is not all terrain, further confirms, that it a bigger Humvee and nothing more.

Unfortunately good men are going to die because of this machine. Shineski should be put in one and sent out into the Sunni Triangle, to prove it's worth.
47 posted on 12/03/2003 10:53:46 AM PST by crazycat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: 2banana
A commander does not need to go into the field and personally deploy his troops at their most effective combat points. He simply moves his resources around on a screen.

Leadership in the 21st century?

That may help save some young lieutenants from being *accidentally* shot by their own troops, particularly the platoon sergeant. I doubt if a similar accident will happen to such a deserving LT's vehicle with the full crew aboard, but one with just the offending candidate and the driver may have to go.

-archy-/-

48 posted on 12/03/2003 10:54:13 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: John123
How well does the Stryker handle mines?

That's what the crews are about to find out. But when similar Russian BTR-80 series 8-wheeled armored cars deployed in Afghanistan and Chechnya, with weights of 21,000 kilos and similar crew loadings hit a TM-46 or TM57 antitank mine with around 15 pounds of explosive inside, typically the driver is killed and the vehicle is rolled over on the side opposite of that under which the mine detonates. And when one centers on two mines stacked atop each other [common because one 20-pound mine can be carried in either hand] and sets off a tilt-rod firing device, the vehicles are sometimes flipped over backwards, end-over-end. All fuel tanks and containers are typically ruptured from the shock of the initial explosion, with resulting fires as hot engine components ignite spilled fuel


49 posted on 12/03/2003 11:08:42 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: crazycat
Welcome.
There's more info than I have available.
People to talk to about the Stryker with MUCH more info include archy, who is here in thread.
There's also the Stryker ping list, the Tread Head ping list, and the Field Artillery ping list.
There's various voices on all of the above mentioned lists, with various contact people to join or be removed from each list.
But there's alot of info available from each group.
*chuckle*

50 posted on 12/03/2003 11:13:43 AM PST by Darksheare (Ignore the wombats, they're a diversion! My 3 million psychotic chinchilla army is the real threat!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: R. Scott
One feature that arouses controversy among military experts is the comparatively mild punch packed by the novel contraption’s M2 0.50 caliber machine gun, 21.7 mm grenade launcher and 7.62 mm MK240 machine gun.

Mild punch? That’s pretty heavy for a troop carrier!

If it was true, but it's not. The Stryker's Norwegian-designed Remote Weapons System mounts Either a M2 .50 Browning machinegun, common on US troop transports since the WWII M3 halftrack and the M113 tracked APC of the 1960s-'70s, OR the 40mm Mark 19 grenade launcher, not both. A turret fitting both weapons was a feature of the Military Polices 4-wheeled Armored Security Vehicle, [ASV] ordered cancelled lest its success overshadow Stryker's questionable future.

In live-ammunition weapons testing with the RWS, the .50 experienced repeated ammunition belt hangups and stoppages resulting in bursts of 45 rounds or less before the operator had to expose himself and come out of the hatch to clear the jam. One Stryker crewman has told me that the RWS sighting arrangement won't stand up to the recoil of the 40mm launcher, and that re-sighting the unit even when the .50 is used is a daily task.

The problem here may not be the Stryker itself but the weapons subsystem used aboard it, of which several possible workarounds might be possible. One of the most immediately obvious would be the combined weapon turret of the ASV.

>

51 posted on 12/03/2003 11:26:01 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: finnman69
good link.

marking.

52 posted on 12/03/2003 11:27:56 AM PST by gaijin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Cannoneer No. 4
You know the tropps are going to love hanging their laundry out to dry on this.
53 posted on 12/03/2003 11:32:17 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: archy
Many of the problems could stem from high tech for the sake of high tech. It seems to be pervading all military equipment.
54 posted on 12/03/2003 11:50:46 AM PST by R. Scott
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: finnman69
In the summer, it'd be the perfect drying rack.
In Iraq's summer, some of the polycotton and nyloncotton articles will be flash fried with alternating lines of cooked and not cooked cloth..
55 posted on 12/03/2003 12:02:56 PM PST by Darksheare (Ignore the wombats, they're a diversion! My 3 million psychotic chinchilla army is the real threat!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
These innovative vehicles are destined to eventually replace the heavy Abrams M1 battle tank and the Bradley M2 fighting vehicles in Iraq.

I actually think the armor and mech inf will eventually redeploy, most likely to prepare for operations against Syria or Iran, or put back into storage in Kuwait, or brought home, leaving Strykers and armored humvees as the primary mounts of the US Army remaining in Iraq. I think one of the six Stryker Brigades is going to be in Iraq pretty much continously for awhile.

We are going to have troops in Iraq for decades, but they need not necessarily be armor/mech troops, or, if they are, the heavy brigades would likely occupy former Republican Guard kasernes and spend most of their time at NTC West while Constabulary troopers run the roads in wheeled vehicles.

56 posted on 12/03/2003 1:24:05 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Old soldiers never die. They just go to the commissary parking lot and regroup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Cannoneer No. 4
The trial by fire is about to begin, I'll be praying for our boys.
57 posted on 12/03/2003 1:30:18 PM PST by exnavy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_rr; ALOHA RONNIE; American in Israel; American Soldier; archy; armymarinemom; BCR #226; ...
Stryker brigade rolls into Iraq from Kuwait

The Stryker brigade rolled into Iraq on Wednesday and brought along the Fort Lewis weather.

It rained all morning on the five convoys that pushed north across the border, making it a cold, nasty ride, especially for the soldiers riding in open humvees.

But when they arrived here some 250 miles later at this Army camp south of Baghdad, nobody'd been shot at and nobody'd been hurt."

I just want everyone to make it there safe," said Spc. Victoria Wright, before her convoy pushed off about 4 a.m. at the Kuwait-Iraq border.

She got her wish.

To read more from embedded reporter Michael Gilbert about the Fort Lewis-based Stryker brigade's first foray into Iraq, read Thursday's edition of The News Tribune.

(Published 10:29AM, December 3rd, 2003)

58 posted on 12/03/2003 1:30:52 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Old soldiers never die. They just go to the commissary parking lot and regroup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: exnavy
Keep praying. The Lord heard you today.
59 posted on 12/03/2003 1:32:02 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Old soldiers never die. They just go to the commissary parking lot and regroup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

They needed to get out of Camp Udairi. Wonder if their departure was "accelerated" because they wore out their welcome in Kuwait?
60 posted on 12/03/2003 1:34:13 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Old soldiers never die. They just go to the commissary parking lot and regroup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-110 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson