Immigration: A Better Way

Tech Central Station ^ | 12/01/2003 | Arnold Kling

[Poohbah]

Again I ask you, what freedom are you giving up by having to show a passport to get a job?

"Gosh, Mr. Smith, we kind of lost your passport paperwork. Our shop steward was a wee bit miffed at some of the stuff you wrote about Hillary Clinton in your local paper, and that kind of hindered our due diligence. It's going to take us a few years to straighten this out. Sorry for the inconvenience. If you cheer the shop steward up a bit, maybe that will speed up the process."

If your ability to earn your livelihood depends on having a federally-issued piece of paper, you are now the servant of the people who process the paperwork.

Being the servant of a government employee is, the last time I checked, not any sort of freedom.

[Ohioan]

I think this writer means well, but begs the key questions, and apparently does not have a clear perception of the qualities which make traditional America unique, nor those which make other peoples unique. Humanity is not even potentially, just one big happy family, whose parts are interchangeable. Liberal immigration laws effectively show disrespect both for us and others.

I would suggest that the quote from Hanson, which the writer starts with, also shows a fundamental flaw. While those Mexican mestizos and Indians who come here may indeed have an admirable work ethic--in many individual cases--those people whom he refers to disparagingly as elites, would be far more able to fit in to traditional American society. Their cultural background is European, as is ours. It is not a matter of subjective judgments of worth; it is a matter of what cultural heritage you want to pass on, and what you want to leave to others.

But America is already more populated than an ideal--although one suspects that no matter what we do, nature will take care of that--albeit not in a way that any of us would wish for. We need to preserve what we have for our own coming generations. It was not passed down to us to solve the world's problems, and we are but intermediaries in the progression of generations. We need to conduct ourselves accordingly.

For a focused approach to immigration, see Immigration & The American Future.

William Flax

[Poohbah]

While those Mexican mestizos and Indians who come here may indeed have an admirable work ethic--in many individual cases--those people whom he refers to disparagingly as elites, would be far more able to fit in to traditional American society.

Graft as a way of life--la mordida--is part of traditional American society?

[hchutch]

Oh, let's see how the average guy likes having to stand in line for a government document he must keep up to date, or he cannot get a job? Oh, and what else will be requried on the passports?

I'm sorry, but that type of approach belongs in Dzerzhinsky Square, NOT the United States of America. I would not tolerate having to produce that passport. They were intended for use in foreign travel - not for domestic travel.

[FITZ]

While those Mexican mestizos and Indians who come here may indeed have an admirable work ethic--in many individual cases--those people whom he refers to disparagingly as elites, would be far more able to fit in to traditional American society. Their cultural background is European, as is ours.

The elites are far worse ---- they're the obnoxious ones hanging huge Mexican flags in their yards ---- many of the campesinos have decent enough values and are more open to learning our culture for the obvious reasons. The elites belong in Europe.

[FITZ]

We don't need a guest worker program, we need to deport any illegal committing felony document fraud, DWI, deport them when they are found driving without insurance or seeking free health care or education. Deport them as they are found to be committing crimes like shoplifting, B&E, drug use, cut them off from all government programs. They didn't choose legal immigration in the first place --- many are informal guest workers now --- they plan to return home and if left illegal with no hope of government handouts, going home is more likely. Keeping them illegal is better because you can get rid of them more easily if they become nuisances.

[Kuksool]

{we need to deport any illegal committing felony document fraud, DWI, deport them when they are found driving without insurance or seeking free health care or education. Deport them as they are found to be committing crimes like shoplifting, B&E, drug use, cut them off from all government programs}

Unfortunately, many cities have passed "sanctuary laws" that protect illegals from the INS.

[traditionalist]

"Gosh, Mr. Smith, we kind of lost your passport paperwork. Our shop steward was a wee bit miffed at some of the stuff you wrote about Hillary Clinton in your local paper, and that kind of hindered our due diligence. It's going to take us a few years to straighten this out. Sorry for the inconvenience. If you cheer the shop steward up a bit, maybe that will speed up the process."

"Gosh, Mr. Smith, we kind of lost your social security card paperwork..."

"Gosh, Mr. Smith, we kind of lost your birth certificate paperwork..."

"Gosh, Mr. Smith, we kind of lost your drivers liscence paperwork..."

If your ability to earn your livelihood depends on having a federally-issued piece of paper, you are now the servant of the people who process the paperwork.

Your livelihood already depends on having federally issued, state-issued, and county issued pieces of paper. How is that different from it dependent on one federally-issued piece of paperwork?

I guess you're not free right now, but a slave to federal, state, and country bureaucrats.

I find few things as assinine as such libertine paranoia. The founders obviously did not share it, or else they would not have written the elastic clause to the constitution.

[traditionalist]

Oh, let's see how the average guy likes having to stand in line for a government document he must keep up to date, or he cannot get a job? Oh, and what else will be requried on the passports?

You can get a passport by mail, and they expire once every ten years. Yeah, that's a real hassle.

You're grasping at straws. Give it up.

[traditionalist]

Unfortunately, many cities have passed "sanctuary laws" that protect illegals from the INS

Those sanctuary laws violate federal law. Our wonderful president could invalidate them with a stroke of a pen if he wanted to, but he's a coward.

[traditionalist]

Excuse me. You can renew a passport by mail, and you only have to do it once every 10 years.

So once in your life you'll have to show up in person at the passport office. You can even make an appointment. Big deal.

[traditionalist]

I would not tolerate having to produce that passport.

Yet you tolerate having to produce that social security card or birth certificate. You libertines truly are irrational.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Look, who cares if the millions of illegal aliens contiune to pour into our country.

I bet many of them shop at Wal-Mart.

It's good for Wal-Mart, good for the economy, it's good for all of us.

Go Bush!

[traditionalist]

That's county not country bureaucrats. Excuse the typo.

[daviddennis]

I'm not sure how the passport requirement differs from the existing drivers' license requirement, except that my passport cost about $200 to get. (On an expedited basis, granted, but you'd need that in any event if one was needed to work).

I think something like 1% or less of the US population has a passport, and I can't imagine the amount of extra incompetence widespread passport holding would expose in the Department of State.

I think many economic refugees would make great citizens, and I don't propose to discriminate against them as Mr Kling seems to want to do. I think there should be a path towards citizenship that begins with being in a guest worker program and then expands into citizenship if you've proven yourself over a period of say five years.

The trickiest problem is Social InSecurity. If you make people pay SI taxes, I think we have to give them the benefits that come with them. Either don't make them pay taxes, or don't give 'em benefits. Of course if you don't charge 'em taxes, I'd love to become a Mexican citizen just so I could avoid paying $7,000-odd a year to SI :-(.

D

[hchutch]

I didn't have to wait in line or show up anywhere for those.

As I said earlier, I find the notion of having to get a passport when I don't really think I'll be even leaving the country to be mildly unsettling, to say the least. Look up the Lemuel Penn case. The notion of requiring passports for everyone is too close to the type of things that the former residents of #2 Dzherzhinsky Square would do, and I do not wish for the United States of America to become a nation which uses such methods.

I'm also not necessarily a libertarian, much less "libertine", although on social/cultural issues, I find both the Left's forced notions of political correctness and the right's prudishness/intolerance unsettling. I find a home with the neo-cons for the most part, though. I don't like the paleos at Chronciles, and think VDARE (which you have a link to on your profile page - I believe Jim Robinson has prohibited such links) tolerates bigotry at a minimum.

I must be some sort of conservative heretic in your mind, but I really don't care what you think.

[traditionalist]

the notion of requiring passports for everyone is too close to the type of things that the former residents of #2 Dzherzhinsky Square would do, and I do not wish for the United States of America to become a nation which uses such methods.

The UK does it, as does most of Western Europe. I believe Austrialia and New Zeland do it. Most of the free world does it. Your objections are based on pure emotion and are totally irrational.

[traditionalist]

I'm not sure how the passport requirement differs from the existing drivers' license requirement, except that my passport cost about $200 to get. (On an expedited basis, granted, but you'd need that in any event if one was needed to work).

I'd institute the requirement in stages. First, announce that in 2 years time, passports will be required for domestic air travel. Then announce that they'll be required to open bank accounts. Finally, announce they'll be required to get a job. By the time you reach the last stage, everyone will have already gotten one, so no need for the expedited fees.

[hchutch]

For doemstic air travel?

That is unconstitutional. Look up the Lemuel Penn case.

[4Freedom]

I've been an advocate of the passport as a national ID for a long time. It's an easy solution to the whole identification problem. That's why the RINOs don't like it.