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At Least Four Dead in Iraq Attack on Spaniards
Reuters to My Yahoo! ^ | Nov. 29, 2003 | Anon

Posted on 11/29/2003 9:17:32 AM PST by Pharmboy

LONDON (Reuters) - At least four and possibly as many as eight members of a Spanish intelligence team were killed on Saturday in an attack on their convoy south of Baghdad, a reporter from Britain's Sky News television said.

David Bowden said in a report from Baghdad after returning from the scene that he saw four bodies and that locals said eight were killed in total and another two people taken prisoner. Spanish officials said in Madrid an eight-strong team had been attacked and it was unclear how many were hurt.

"We were actually driving from the town of Hilla, which is just south of Baghdad, and we saw these men lying dead on the floor (ground) by the side of the road after the ambush," Bowden said.

"We were told by locals there that...about 30 minutes before they'd attacked a convoy of three vehicles. They pulled the people out of the vehicles. They told us that in fact they'd killed eight people and they'd captured two others.

"I only saw with my own eyes four dead bodies on the road.

"We filmed for a couple of minutes and then we became the focus of the mob's attention. They were shouting praise to Saddam (Hussein) and we disappeared pretty quickly."


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: baghdad; captives; cni; iraq; kia; spain; terror
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To: Dog Gone
Well put.
21 posted on 11/29/2003 9:39:47 AM PST by Will_Zurmacht
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: mikegi
Hostages have just been a matter of time.
23 posted on 11/29/2003 9:41:32 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Will_Zurmacht
It was not well put at all.
24 posted on 11/29/2003 9:41:54 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: zarf; Dog Gone
Japanese model? Sure let's try it. Parliamentary elections and elections for a prime minister were held in April 1946, only eight months after Hiroshima.
25 posted on 11/29/2003 9:44:16 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Destro
So your argument is that since Iraq has no real experience with democracy (like Imperial Japan or Fascist Germany)we would be better off walking away from the project altogether?

I find this reasoning this hard to understand..
26 posted on 11/29/2003 9:45:01 AM PST by Will_Zurmacht
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To: Destro
ROFL, Japan never had anything resembling a liberal representative democracy prior to our occupation. Iraq has far more experience in that regard.
27 posted on 11/29/2003 9:45:23 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Travis McGee
We have been incredibly lucky not to have any soldiers or civilian contractors snatched as hostage-bait so far

To the best of my knowledge there are still two contractors MIA, snatched from their cars about 10 days ago. I don't know the disposition, they could be home for all I know. But their car was found without them in it and that was the last I'd heard.

28 posted on 11/29/2003 9:49:43 AM PST by Eagle Eye (I'm a RINO. I'm far too conservative to be a real Republican.)
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To: zarf
"We're dealing with subhumans here -- read Arabs."

I can't keep up. Are they a freedom-loving people ripe for democracy, needing only the elimination of the tyrant Saddam and a helping hand from Uncle Sam, or are they vermin fit only for extermination? Both can't be true, and they certainly lead to different policies.

Your remark encompasses all Arabs, so I suppose everyone over there is subhuman, therefore incapable of self-rule and ripe for blasting straight to hell.

29 posted on 11/29/2003 9:51:50 AM PST by resistmuch
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To: Dog Gone
Nonsense! Japan had competitive parliamentary electinos in the 1920s and a free press. Iraq's experience was only a brief interlude of highly restricted elections in the 1950s.
30 posted on 11/29/2003 9:52:56 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Will_Zurmacht
What I can't understand is how you can take Iraq, a nation of about 4 or 5 ethnic groups and 3 religions groups and compared it to Germany and Japan-both nations with a homogeneous ethnicity, history of democracy, a history of industrialization, a highly educated population and a sizable middle class.

I would also add we had millions of troops deployed in Europe and Asia to keep order.

So when you try to compare Iraq to Germany/Japan you are being just as disingenuous as those that compare Iraq to Vietnam.

31 posted on 11/29/2003 9:52:59 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: resistmuch

32 posted on 11/29/2003 9:57:41 AM PST by PokeyJoe (By their fruits ye shall know them.)
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To: Captain Kirk
and our troops are still in Okinawa, duh. go stick you head in the sand somewhere else. DU perhaps, with your REAL friends.
33 posted on 11/29/2003 9:59:09 AM PST by gdc61
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To: Dog Gone
You should be laughing at yourself for being ignorant.

Meiji Restoration

1868-1912

The new government aimed to make Japan a democratic state with equality among all its people. The boundaries between the social classes of Tokugawa Japan were gradually broken down. Consequently, the samurai were the big losers of those social reforms since they lost all their privileges. The reforms also included the establishment of human rights such as religious freedom in 1873.

In order to stabilize the new government, the former feudal lords (daimyo) had to return all their lands to the emperor. This was achieved already in 1870 and followed by the restructuring of the country in prefectures.

The education system was reformed after the French and later after the German system. Among those reforms was the introduction of compulsory education.

During the era of the weak emperor Taisho (1912-26), the political power shifted from the oligarchic clique (genro) to the parliament and the democratic parties.

During the 1930s, the military established almost complete control over the government. Many political enemies were assassinated, and communists persecuted. Indoctrination and censorship in education and media were further intensified. Navy and army officers soon occupied most of the important offices, including the one of the prime minister.

-----

The 30s is when what we consider the bad Japan was born-just like Nazi Germany.

34 posted on 11/29/2003 10:00:47 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Captain Kirk
bump for someone who knows his history.
35 posted on 11/29/2003 10:01:52 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Captain Kirk
Japan briefly experimented with it and didn't like it. It was a farce. The notion that we "restored" democracy to Japan is silly. The Emperor had complete control.
36 posted on 11/29/2003 10:03:02 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: zarf
We're dealing with subhumans here - read: Arabs.

This type of stupidity doesn't help our cause.

37 posted on 11/29/2003 10:03:13 AM PST by Gritty ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant"-Omar M. Ahmad {CAIR})
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To: gdc61; Captain Kirk
Close Most Overseas Bases

The US Marine Corps should reduce its presence on the small Japanese island of Okinawa, something local residents have demanded for years. The US military operates from much of the best land on the island which locals want for tourism. The Marines promised to close its air station at Futenma within seven years in 1996, but that will be delayed since the Marines demand that Japan build a $5 billion offshore airbase. While Kadena Air Force base and storage facilities on Okinawa are valuable, there is no need to keep 20,000 Marines marooned there, especially since off-base incidents frequently strain relations with the Japanese. Restrictions on that small island make training almost pointless, and a few thousand Marines will make little difference if one million North Koreans insanely attack the five million man South Korean army.

Marine Generals must abandon the unrealistic idea of an offshore airbase and close Futenma within two years. The Marines can move a few aircraft over to Kadena, while the 2000-man 31st MEU on Okinawa and its amphibious ships in Sasebo, Japan move to Hawaii and utilize the excellent Pohakulao Training Area. The 3rd Marine Regiment in Hawaii can rotate its three battalions to keep one truly ready for instant deployment, rather than the awkward method of assigning a battalion as it arrives on Okinawa for a six-month rotation. Moreover, Marines in Hawaii can embark amphibs quicker at Pearl Harbor than waiting for amphibs from Sasebo to sail down to Okinawa, and Hawaii is closer to unstable nations in the South Pacific where a 2000-man MEU can rapidly deploy to protect Americans. This is why the 31st MEU (then the 35th MAU) deployments originated from Hawaii until twenty years ago.

In addition, the amphibs now at Sasebo will be safer from attack if based far from the Asian mainland. Keeping American aircraft and ships in the Philippines didn't deter the Japanese from attacking in 1941, they just provided easy targets for a surprise attack. Therefore, the Navy should close its expensive Sasebo base and save money too, or maybe just downsize it to a logistical hub like Singapore. It should also transfer its small base at White Beach on Okinawa to the Japanese Navy to maintain, and eliminate the headquarters there known as "Amphibious Group 1" which does absolutely nothing. III MEF headquarters on Okinawa with its 500 Marines would be more effective in Hawaii, while another infantry battalion now deployed to Okinawa should deploy worldwide to combat terrorism. Finally, shifting millions of military dollars from Japan to economically depressed Hawaii is best for America while cutting the number of US Marines on Okinawa will boost morale and retention. Many Marines retire early rather than going on their fourth or fifth senseless 6-12 month unaccompanied tour to "the rock".

38 posted on 11/29/2003 10:05:29 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
Bingo. Those who make this comparison also forget the Cold War as a reason for keeping the troops in Japan and Germany for so long.

As I said, we let Japan have free elections only eight months after Hiroshima. No elections have been held in Iraq and next years's scheduled elections already seem to be unraveling. Through the entire process, the Japanese had a functioning government We did keep the troops there but, in great part, because of the Cold War.

All German elections would have probably been held much earlier (and the troops withdrawn earlier) had it not been for the four-way divided control and the Cold War.

39 posted on 11/29/2003 10:05:53 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Dog Gone; Captain Kirk
The Emperor had complete control.

You are boxing your self into a corner. A more ignorant statement of Japanese history statement could not have been described.

40 posted on 11/29/2003 10:07:41 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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