Republicans at the trough

OC Register ^ | 11/28/03 | Op/Ed

[NormsRevenge]

Perhaps the most significant trend as the current congressional session lumbers toward an end - a December session to pass an omnibus $820-billion spending bill is still in the offing - is the extent to which the Republican Party under President Bush and the current congressional leadership has become the party of big spending.

[NormsRevenge]

A One Party State Ahead? The Porkocrats.

[South40]

Nixon, at least, had the excuse of governing in an era when liberalism was at its apex

Really? The 8 years of Klintoon staining the White House were the apex of liberalism. It's been in decline ever since.

[glock rocks]

no $h!t Norm.

Peanut subsidies jumped from zero in 1998 to $1.5 billion.

somebody buying off jimmuh? what a load. glad the conservatives are in charge.

</God how I miss Reagan>

[Ahban]

http://www.constitutionparty.com

[gcruse]

Reminds me of a joke making the rounds in the early days of the Vietnam War.

"They told me if I voted for Goldwater, we'd go to war. So I did, and WE DID!!!"

Sometimes, no matter how you vote, the zugzwang of history, combined with the shortest distance between two points being the accumulation of centralized power, shuts the door on any real change. The same palms, the same squeaking wheels, and the same bribing of the electorate require the same grease as ever.

[StatesEnemy]

Sometimes, no matter how you vote, the zugzwang of history, combined with the shortest distance between two points being the accumulation of centralized power, shuts the door on any real change. The same palms, the same squeaking wheels, and the same bribing of the electorate require the same grease as ever.

Surely it must all come crashing down sooner rather than later... No matter what sorta fiduciary finagling the porcicrats propose.

[gooleyman]

"http://www.constitutionparty.com"

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Thanks for the link. I went to their site and read a good bit of their Platform. Sounds good. Too bad they can't beat the DemocRATS. When they poll more than the Dems, I'll consider switching over from the Pubs. Until then, I have to go with keeping the feet of the Republicans to the fire, which is what articles and discussions like this does. But I can't risk helping the Dems win by switching to a third party now. (I can feel the flames' tempertures rising as I type.)

I'll keep an eye on them though. Thanks again.

[Ahban]

You are welcome.

Please think about the endgame. The Dem's are amoral socialists and the GOP follows leftward behind them 20-30 years. The "Contract with America" was less than 10 years ago already the GOP is miles left of it. They are not even trying to defend the conservative position, much less advance it.

We may have to use the nuclear option. We may have to give up an election to either get the GOP back on track or build an alternative. I honestly don't see how you can hold their feet to the fire if they already know that you will not vote for another party. They think they have you regardless of how often they urinate on your shoes for the amusement of that air-headed soccer mom or illegal whose vote they are pandering for.

Maybe the answer is to join the Constitution party and work to get state and local candidates elected. Then there would be legitamate pressure on the GOP to produce.

[gooleyman]

We may have to use the nuclear option. We may have to give up an election to either get the GOP back on track or build an alternative.

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That was tried in '92 and '96 (Perot) and I've still got radiation burns (Clintoon) from it. I can't advocate risking that again. Hillary would love you for it if you'll just wait until '08. She wouldn't want you wasting that on '04 and giving the election to Doctor Dean.

Best Wishes

[lonestar]

That was tried in '92 and '96 (Perot) and I've still got radiation burns (Clintoon) from it. I can't advocate risking that again. Hillary would love you for it if you'll just wait until '08. She wouldn't want you wasting that on '04 and giving the election to Doctor Dean.

I agree totally. A third party is a lost cause. The best way to go is to become stronger in the GOP. If there isn't strength to influence the Repubs, the only consequence is to hand the country over to the socialists.

I cannot understand how Bill Clinton didn't wake up third party supporters. Standing on "principle" put a man with no integrity or character in the Oval Office to play with young interns.

[Ahban]

I was not going to keep pestering gooleyman on this, since he seems so pleasant, but since you desire to revisit it...

What will you guys say in 15-20 years when the GOP nominee is where the nine dwarfs are now? That is the endgame we are looking at. You will be telling me I must vote for the socialist to keep the lesbian socialist from winning. No sale.

Ross Perot did not take votes from the right. Those people sat out. He took votes from the "radical center". He was pro-abortion for crying out loud. How can ANYONE think the RR were the ones that went for Perot?

It is easier to build a new structure than to tear down an old structure and then rebuild. The elites that control the GOP are not going to let you change their party. They would rather watch the hole thing come down. I know what I am talking about. I got close enough to see it. By the time you took over the GOP, you would be king only of ashes.

When we got Clinton, we got a balanced budget. We got a loyal opposition. If Hitlery won the Presidency maybe the GOP Congress would try and stop here instead of go along with W Bush when he does the same kind of things she would do. Bill Clinton has wounded the democratic party, not helped it. Hitlery as President with 35% of the vote would sink the DEMS for good.

Besides all that, we do not have to start with the Presidency. Just join up and back some good state representative candidates, that is where it starts. The #1 mistake of every third party in my life, and of many conservatives, is going for the White House the first election.

[gooleyman]

"I was not going to keep pestering gooleyman on this...but since you desire to revisit it..."

You're not pestering. These discussions are necessary. We all need to learn. I'd like to convert you just like you'd like to convert me. Although I don't think either will happen. Thanks for the compliment, by the way. I send that same description of pleasant back to you as well. I think it helps in the discussion to remain so, and you have. But enough of the smooch session, let's get down to business (smile):

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"What will you guys say in 15-20 years when the GOP nominee is where the nine dwarfs are now? That is the endgame we are looking at.

My view is...neither of us guaranteed tomorrow, much less 15-20 years from now. We have to make the best decision we can NOW with an eye toward the future, of course. But I'm not even going to pretend to know what will happen that long from now. I like a LOT of what George W. Bush has done...a LOT. But I have said many times in this forum that there are things I don't like. Some were his doing and some were because he has to work within our system setup by our Forefathers. I have also said that the more I learn about our "system" of governement, the more respect I have for those Forefathers. Quick changes such as what you call for are only possible with a Dictatorship. And with a Dictatorship, you'd better be lucky enough to be on the right side of that Dictator, or else bang..bang. Our system is a system of S-L-O-W changes and require patience for any lasting changes.

It's like George W. Bush said concerning abortion (my true hot button) when asked if he would go after Roe-v-Wade. He said (paraphrased) you must first change peoples hearts, then you can go after the larger issure. Just recently, there was a debate on the partial birth abortion procedure. A lot of hearts were changed on that because for the first time, people saw what a horendous, barbaric procedure it really is. George Bush signed it...Hitlery would not have (just like her HINO didn't sign it). I think that momentum will go a long way when we do challenge ROE. And that IS coming. Kind of like you said near the end of your last comment:

The #1 mistake of every third party in my life, and of many conservatives, is going for the White House the first election.

That makes my point very clearly. The Constitution Party has an outstanding Platform. I tried but couldn't shoot any holes in it. I didn't want to be snookered like I was with the Libertarian Party. I was saying yeah..yeah, but then they lowered the drug thing on me. I've never looked at them again. But the Constitution Party needs to be patient. They aren't going to come out of the blocks and win the Presidency. In the meantime, while they are being patient and growing at the State and Local Level, we must protect their ability to thrive and stay alive. That's where my strategy comes in. We MUST keep control of Congress and the Presidency OUT of the hands of DemocRATS. WE MUST. In that way, they themselves will wither on the vine (to coin Newt). You see what Clintoon tried to do but he was stopped by even his own party in his first 2 years and knocked for a loss by the Pubs his last 6 years.

If Gore had won, we still would have had 9-11 (at least) and we still would have had the Patriot Act, probably just as it is, with few differences. At least with Bush, I can be confident that he will cherry pick what is good and not go after the bad portions of it. Gore would have used it to go after Conservatives in this country like Clintoon did instead of going after the Taliban. Gore would have deferred to the U.N. while Saddam would still be in power and rewarding terrorists families for their killings. Remember Clintoon even pardoned some terrorists in exchange for their votes for Hitlery in her Senate race.

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"Ross Perot did not take votes from the right. Those people sat out.

We can argue this forever, but I worked at a company full of Perot voters who were very sad that they had not voted Republican and vowed to never vote 3rd Party again. They were mad at Old Man Bush for one reason..."Read My Lips". Some admitted that they felt like they had helped elect Clinton. They really didn't because I live in the Liberal Mecca of Cuyahoga County. A Republican Presidential candidate hasn't carried this county in probably 60 years or better. We'll just differ on that.

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If Hitlery won the Presidency maybe the GOP Congress would try and stop here instead of go along with W Bush when he does the same kind of things she would do.

I CANNOT and WILL NOT do ANYTHING that helps especially Hitlery to win the Presidency. You think her HINO was bad. WOW!!! I wouldn't wish her on the Taliban even.

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"Bill Clinton has wounded the democratic party, not helped it."

And I'd like to KILL it the rest of the way. And I won't do that by helping them win elections.

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In closing, I'd like to say, go ahead and build the Constitution Party. I've got your back until they grow up and become viable. Believe me we're on the same side. We just disagree on how to get there from here. I bookmarked their site for future referrence. I simply CANNOT bring myself to help the DEMS ever again.

Getting back to my hot button issue...Abortion...over 40 million murdered unborns also would say we can't afford to let the DemocRATS back in power.

[Spiff]

Damned, dirty socialist bastards - all of them!! Keep your filthy hands off of my paycheck!!

[gooleyman]

"...A third party is a lost cause."

Thanks for the support. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are lost causes. The Republicans would have been known as a third party at one time too. They, and all the "third" parties just need to learn some patience and work their way up. Take a look at the Constitution Party's Platform on the link that Ahban posted. They say the right things...but...they can't realisitically oppose the GOP or the Dems right now. And now is not the time, IMHO, to abandon ship and allow the Dems, especially...ESPECIALLY another Clintoon into the White House. And even if the Constitution Party wins, there is still the problem with a too-liberal Congress, albeit Republican controlled.

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"I cannot understand how Bill Clinton didn't wake up third party supporters."

I could not agree more. Lesson certainly not wasted here even though I voted Republican both times. Remember in 2000 when the Dems were crying that Ralph Nader had syphoned votes from Al Gore and cost him the election. Now that one is inarguable. If Gore had gotten those Nader votes in Florida, we'd be singing a different tune now. You watch the next election! The Democrat voters will have learned their lesson, I'll bet. Nader probably won't get a third the votes he got the last time. Conservatives need to be quick learners like that. Alas, I doubt it will happen. I just hope there aren't enough to throw the White House to "Mean Doctor Dean".

Take care. Chin up!!! We are winning.

[lonestar]

I don't know how old you are but I've been done the road you're touting several times and it does not work. It's not that it's never been tried; it just hasn't and will not work.

Been there, done that! Good luck!

[Ahban]

I'm glad you feel that way. Remember that on your hot-button issue, when he signed it he as much said that this was as far as he was going to go. The next GOP nominee will in all likelyhood do even less. Is that far enough for you? To stop the masacre, you WILL have to move beyond the GOP.

Peace

[Ahban]

I'm 42, no child at all. How could you have been down this road several times when the Constitution Party only assumed its current form (name and declaration of Christian inspiration) in 1999? If you have not tried building on the Chief Cornerstone then I submit that you should give it a try.

The time was not right for a third party in the 90s. People are more dissatisfied with the two parties than ever before in my life. This is the right time. The key is to not focus on President, but on local offices where the reputation of your candidate is known and means more than party label. That idea has not been tried either.

[gooleyman]

"...Remember that on your hot-button issue (abortion) when he signed it he as much said that this was as far as he was going to go."

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That's another good thing about our system. It's not only up to him (the President). To win, you pick your fights, your methods AND the time to start your attack. Now just happens NOT to be the time. Why start a battle you know you can't win yet.

We need just one or two more pieces of the puzzle and victory will be all but assured.

Stay tuned, this could get good.

[The_Eaglet]

Rescuing system next target of reformers-Campaign Finance Reform thread-day 34