MSNBC: Mortar Attack Kills US Troop in Iraq (interesting video link)

MSNBC ^ | Nov 28, 2003 | msnbc

[mikegi]

Four mortar shells hit a U.S. military compound Friday in the northern city of Mosul, killing a soldier from the 101st Airborne Division, the military said.

MEANWHILE, AN EXPLOSION slightly damaged a highway overpass in western Baghdad Friday, and a U.S. soldier died on Thanksgiving from a gunshot wound of unknown origin in a base west of Baghdad, the military said.

In Mosul, an Iraqi worker in the compound was slightly wounded in the attack at around 11 a.m. local time, Master Sgt. Kelly Tyler said.

[mikegi]

I think this is our first death from a mortar attack since the main war ended.

If you go about halfway down the page there's a interesting video clip of our guys finding and dealing with an IED.

[ResistorSister]

Look at the title.

MSNBC: Mortar Attack Kills US TROOP in Iraq

Does the word TROOP, mean one soldier?

[Darksheare]

Ping.
Even though they're doing the shoot and run deal with the mortars, and not at all being accurate, there still are the 'golden bb' hits on or near soldiers.

Wonder if this was one area where firefinder wasn't available.
FOUR mortar rounds sounds like a bit of time to be sitting shooting when counter-battery fire could be coming.

[verity]

Is is possible there was more than one tube?

[Darksheare]

Possible.
But usually not the case.
That raises the amount of equipment and people they have to have in one area, and raises the risk of them being wiped out at one time.
I'd have to ask our 11C types here on FR abut it, but terror attacks using mortars are different from soldiers using mortars in actual combat.

Getting back to the second paragraph above, it's a bad idea for terrorists to have more than the number absolutely necessary to accomplish their goal in an area since they honestly are not guaranteed to be able to replace equipment and people in a timely fashion.
If they had four mortars there for this, that would leave behind alot of evidence to such.
It also shows a bit of desperation.
It would also mean they're going to make a mistake sometime soon and lose one or more of their mortar teams to us.
But, again, not liekly.
They don't risk more than what is absolutely necessary.

[dglang]

YUP

[verity]

I was thinking more in the line of two tubes. Purely speculation on my part.
But I do know for a fact that 107mm rockets have been launched in bunches which is understandable because of their range and lack of need to 'pack up' and scoot.

[Darksheare]

Yes.
Counterbattery fire becomes a higher possibility with the more rounds you fire without moving.
Their best bet as survival would be four mortars.
But it's hard to co-ordinate mortars over distance without them being in the same area.
For effective fire they would need to be co-ordinated.
But I haven't heard whether or not the terrs have done such yet.
It has sounded more like random fire.

Two tubes would make sense, but that still raises the amount of risk.
I'd like to see JStars aircraft circuiting the area and looking to see if any vehicles leave the area where the mortars fired from, and how many vehicles.
It has been rumored that in Afghanistan, the Afghanis mounted a mortar on the back of a pickup truck, and modified it to break down and lay down with a tarp over it all.
A JStars can see a bicycle at almost 100 miles or so, so it'd be neat to see what leaves the area, and watch where it goes.
And then zap it with artillery when it stops.

The donkey cart rocket attacks are interesting as well.
Donkey carts are ubiquious over there, so it is pretty much a 'stealth weapon'.
And doing counterbattery on that is useless.
The one donkey cart 'bomb' that was studied had a timer.
The terrs were long gone before the rockets fired.

[neverdem]

"I need some of our 11C types over here as well as some analysis.
There's something there bothering me, and I think I'm missing it:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1030298/posts "

I think one tube could hang four rounds in 10 seconds or less, maybe 6 seconds, if they are not re-leveling the bubbles on their sight after the first round, assuming they're using an aiming stake or equivalent.

If they re-aim the tube after each round, then maybe around 15 seconds from hanging the first to last round, assuming they're not using a FO and FDC to adjust fire.

Counter-battery radar and automated FDC could probably generate numbers in a couple of seconds before fire commands are ready for manned crews.

As far as getting clearance for counter-battery fire from above, I have no idea how high up they have to go and how long that takes.

[Darksheare]

That's what's bothering me.
Thanks.
Wasn't sure what it was that was tickling the back of my brain, that's the reason for the call out for analysis.

Thanks for the input.

[SAMWolf]

You can drop four rounds pretty quick with a good ammo bearer.

[Darksheare]

Okers.
Kinda different with artillery.
We only broke 8 rounds in one minute because we were hauling arse.
(12 rounds in roughly 42 seconds. Max rate of fire for the M119 is something alot lower than that.)

We also got our heads ripped off for that.

[SAMWolf]

An 81mm mortar, M29 with mount M23A3 -- total weight of 93.5 lbs. A muzzle loaded, drop fire weapon, capable of a maximum rate of fire of 12 rounds per minute (charge 8) for two minutes; or a sustained rate of fire of 3 round per minute (charge 8). Maximum effective range of 3,650 meters. Approximate bursting area in meters of 25 x 20. Each round weighed 7 to 12 pounds.

[Darksheare]

M119A1
Max ROF 6 rounds per minute for 2 minutes
Sustained ROF 3 rounds per minute for 30 minutes
Max range (charge 7) 11,500 meters
Max range (Charge 8) 14,000 meters
Max range (RAP round)19,000 meters
recoil@ 0 mils elevation 42"
recoil@ 1244mils elevation 14.5"

Length(folded) 16'
Length(emplaced) 20'9"
Weight 4,320 lbs (Approx)
Lunette load 386 lbs

It was a nice system, but we repeatedly 'violated' max rate of fire.
(Safety violation!)

[Darksheare]

Oops, it's a 105mm canister ammunition towed howitzer.

A light self-propelled howitzer with the same performance specs as the M119 would be a good future force system, BUT.. it'd be extremely lightly armored, alot like the Stryker in that respect.

[Defender2]

BBC = Bill's Bullsh*t Communists, CBS = Communists Bull Sh*t, NBC = Nothing But Communists, ABC = ALL Bullsh*t Communists, MSNBC = Matthews S*cks Nothing But Communists, CNBC = Communists, Nothing But Communists, CNN = Communists News Network, TBS = TASS Bullsh*t, PBS = Pravda Bullsh*t, Fairweather whichever way the the wind blows(including O'Reilly) FOX sometimes ROCKS, The MIGHTY MAJA RUSHIE, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity RULES the AIRWAVES and FREE REPUBLIC IS BY FAR THE BEST NEWS NETWORK!!!!:-)

[SAMWolf]

It was a nice system, but we repeatedly 'violated' max rate of fire.

Any unit that didn't wasn't supporting their Infantry. :-)

[Darksheare]

We were told we were firing unsafely, that 'there COULD be a bit of unburned powder or debris in the tube that MIGHT catch the round. Or the previous round may not have actually fired and be stuck in the tube!'
*snort*

We had two 12 round missions come up, one right after the other.
And then about 20 minutes later we had a 16 round mission come up.
I asked the OC's about max rof then.
They glared at me evilly.
That may be why I got stuck at E-4?

[LibertySailor]

you reckon the terrorists are using mobile mortars on trucks or vans?

The IRA has used van-mounted mortars for terror attacks

[Darksheare]

It's possible.
Some of the terrs that have entered Iraq are former mujahadeen from Afghanistan's war with Russia.
And they used, at times, pickup trucks modified as described.

A JStars would be able to find that out quickly enough.
And be able to find out where they're going.
Might also make it easier to do counterbattery fire on them.
But that last one depends on whether or not they're in some innocent's back yard.