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GAY MARRIAGE Conservatives should insist on same-sex vows (Barf Alert
New York Times ^ | David Brooks

Posted on 11/26/2003 5:20:26 AM PST by Holly_P

Doing so would strengthen marriage as an institution and the culture of fidelity.

Anybody who has several sexual partners in a year is committing spiritual suicide. He or she is ripping the veil from all that is private and delicate in oneself and pulverizing it in an assembly line of selfish sensations.

But marriage is the opposite. Marriage joins two people in a sacred bond. It demands that they make an exclusive commitment to one another, and thereby takes two discrete individuals and turns them into kin.

Few of us work as hard at it as we should, but marriage makes us better than we deserve to be. Even in the chores of daily life, married couples find themselves, over the years, coming closer together, fusing into one flesh. Married people who remain committed to each other find that they reorganize and deepen each other's lives. They may eventually come to the point when they can say to each other: "Love you? I am you."

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News
KEYWORDS: conservatives; davidbrooks; divorce; gay; homosexualagenda; marriage
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To: Deep_6
What "gay community"? I know conservative homosexuals who do NOT agree with the "radical gay agenda"; they know how to handle their private affairs without the help of the government.
81 posted on 11/28/2003 9:01:28 PM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: Deep_6
When adulterer Kobe Bryant is lauded for "putting it all behind him" by playing for millions of dollars per game, when the entertainment shows adore Seigfreid and Roy, when Family Hour TV sitcoms show every kind of sexual immorality, I wonder who's shocked and why.
82 posted on 11/28/2003 9:02:31 PM PST by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: DLfromthedesert
Re:
"..So you don't know anyone who engaged in homo behavior who are now 
happily married to someone of the opposite sex?
..."

Engaging in sexual actions with someone of the same gender, does not
make that person a homosexual. A homosexual desires a person of
the same sex in the same manner a heterosexual desires a person
of the opposite sex.

"...I know conservative homosexuals who do NOT agree with the
"radical gay agenda"; they know how to handle their private affairs
without the help of the government
......"

Sure, you or I can get by without the perks of Government coffers,
but if you or I are being denied what is Constitutionally provided to us,
would it be right not to fight for it?

If you do not own a firearm, would you ignore the fight against
legislation that will make owning a firearm illegal?

Constitutional rights; human rights, should never be taken lightly.
What someone else loses today, you may lose tomorrow.

I won't let it happen on my watch; not without a fight.

Gay or straight, rights are rights.

 

83 posted on 11/28/2003 9:16:01 PM PST by Deep_6
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To: hocndoc
Re:
"..TV sitcoms show every kind of sexual immorality, I wonder who's shocked and why......"

It's called "freedom of speech" and should be honored and cherished.

We should depend on good parenting to teach right from wrong, not some
TV show.

That aside.... What's that got to do with allowing the same rights for all?

 

84 posted on 11/28/2003 9:19:53 PM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
Gee, and the Republic survived for over 200 years without "gays" having these "rights". You've been duped, my friend, by someone's nefarious agenda.
85 posted on 11/28/2003 9:20:35 PM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: DLfromthedesert
Re:
"....Gee, and the Republic survived for over 200 years without "gays" 
having these "rights"
......."

Slavery was legal for a ton of years.... Blacks sat in the back of buses
and were refused to be served at the same areas as whites.. Woman
weren't allowed to vote... 

Your point?

 

86 posted on 11/28/2003 9:35:17 PM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
Discernment. You lack it.
87 posted on 11/28/2003 9:38:31 PM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: Deep_6
Is marriage a right? Can rights be licensed or regulated or rationed?
88 posted on 11/28/2003 10:06:51 PM PST by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: Deep_6
I hate...

You started 6 paragraphs with that phrase. That's a lot of hate.

I have not used the word hate in any of my previous posts on this topic. Do not insinuate that there is any hatred in my disscusions. An objection is not hatred.

In this topic, the contract is "marriage". All that comply to it's contract; all that are willing to vow to remain together as a couple, deserve the same treatment under law.,

Contracts other than marriage are available to solve the problem of two people entering into a partnership. Reciprocal personal sevice contracts, powers of attorney, incorporation, limited partnerships,equal partnerships, asset distribution,etc. Marriage is not the only way to solve what we would be led to believe are insurmountable problems created by what in my opinion is a behavior. If rights, status or privilege are to be granted based on behavior then it is only reasonable to verify said behavior.

Definition from FindLaw

http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/results.pl?co=lawcrawler.findlaw.com&topic=63/634e8e4d4e93fc49502a0d4ec5df4166

marriage

['mar-ij]

1: the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a legal, consensual, and contractual relationship recognized and sanctioned by and dissolvable only by law (see also divorce)

2: the ceremony containing certain legal formalities by which a marriage relationship is created

89 posted on 11/28/2003 10:08:41 PM PST by Calamari
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To: Deep_6
Constitutional rights; human rights, should never be taken lightly. What someone else loses today, you may lose tomorrow.

...but if you or I are being denied what is Constitutionally provided to us, would it be right not to fight for it?

There is no right enumerated in the Constitution that confers the right to marry to people practicing homosexual behavior.

Homosexuals have the same Constitutional rights as any other individual in the United States of America. The Constitution doe not address marriage, it is an issue left to the States.

What rights are you referring to that are being denied?

90 posted on 11/28/2003 10:32:14 PM PST by Calamari
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To: Deep_6
Blacks deny link in gay, civil rights,

Here is another article that seems to agree that being homosexual is about behavior.

91 posted on 11/28/2003 11:02:33 PM PST by Calamari
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To: Deep_6
Since you support redefining marriage. Why limit the number to two ? Why not three or five or for that matter seventy-five ? Why limit marriage to two people ?

Aren't you being "close minded" with such limitations ?

And while you're at it...
Why limit marriage to two unrelated people ? In the universe you're advocating, why shouldn't two sisters be allowed to marry or two brothers ? Or triplets ? Why not an uncle and three of his nephews ?

And if you can rationalize such changes 'all in the name of diversity and inclusiveness', why limit marriage to people ? Why not include inanimate objects ? I mean, someone might really 'love' a curly maple writer's desk they made from scratch. Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry it ?
92 posted on 11/28/2003 11:36:48 PM PST by pyx (Is this really all there is ?)
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To: hocndoc
Re:
"...Is marriage a right? Can rights be licensed or regulated or rationed?....."

It's safe to assume you have not been reading these threads?

Marriage should not be considered "a right" that's been legislated
for a select group. Unfortunately, it appears that the honor of being
able to legally tie your life to another's and enjoy the legal benefits of
making such a life-long pledge, has indeed become a "legislated right".

It's been a licensed act, with fees attached and rationed to those
that fit a certain sexual preference outline.

If your questioning the legality of making it a "right" to be licensed,
regulated and doled out in a prejudicial manner....... The answer
is no, it's not Constitutionally correct, it's not Constitutionally
legal and that's been proven to be the answer over and over again.

Thanks

 

93 posted on 11/29/2003 6:36:23 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: pyx
Re:
"..Since you support redefining marriage. Why limit the number to two ?...."

Since you make it apparent that you can't seem to find the time to read all
the posts concerning this topic with any effort to clearly understand the
position some of us take on this topic, please at least read post #78  and
please discontinue repeating the idiotic rhetoric of others.

Thanks.

 

94 posted on 11/29/2003 6:42:19 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
"The gay community is not attempting to make the Religious institutions comply,..."

Where have you been? Of course the homosexuals have been trying to redefine EVERTHING to reflect honor to their desires and beliefs. Did you completely miss the Episcopalean attack? Those who practice homosexuality are not just looking for social justice, they seek to redefine every aspect of our culture to justify their sinful choice.
95 posted on 11/29/2003 6:58:55 AM PST by Sweet Hour of Prayer
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To: Calamari
Re:
"...If rights, status or privilege are to be granted based on behavior
 then it is only reasonable to verify said behavior.
...."

Your unabashed and overly passionate interest in having two people
disclose exactly what it is they do behind their closed doors, is near
amazing in this type of forum.

If  "rights, status or privilege are to be granted based on behavior",
then in the instance of "marriage" the only "behavior" qualifier can
and should be the willingness to dedicate one's life to one other 
individual and to do so with a bond that exceeds all others in law.

It is done with dignity, honor and respect for one another, and is a
life-long contract.

How many heterosexual couples live up to that pledge? The statistics
worsen each year. Divorce is easy, too easy. And the honor and respect
of being married, that once was cherished among those of us that married, 
has dwindled to be simply a passing fancy; something attributed to
our older generation.

If the concept of marriage has gotten that bad among the heterosexual
community at large, how then can homosexuals wishing to make
the same pledge, be bad?

As I stated on other threads each time this topic has been debated,
we have many, many clients, associates, and friends that have been
living together for well over 20 years in homosexual relationships. Their
bonding without benefit of a marriage contract has outlasted that of
so many other heterosexuals that have garnered the marriage contract.

There is an all-encompassing debacle of "rights" associated with
the marriage contract. "Next of kin" rights, spousal rights, the right
to make life and death choices abound. And along with the "rights"
are the many other contracts whose provisions apply only to those
that are married, or the partner in marriage. Insurance contracts,
deeds, joint contracts.. All contracts in one way or another, including
the legal rights in court actions, have some exception or exemption for
an individual that's been bonded in marriage.

When that is the case; when there are so many legal issues that
surround the act of marriage, then that marriage decree can not
and should not, be limited to any select few, if based on prejudicial
issues. We do not [legally] judge a person's worth by ethnic, color,
heritage or sexuality. We afford the same legal rights to all.

Yes, that is part of our Constitution.

 

96 posted on 11/29/2003 7:18:52 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: Sweet Hour of Prayer
Re:
[my comment] 
"The gay community is not attempting to make the Religious institutions comply,..."

There is no community that can "make" any Religious institution comply
with that, that is considered by that institution to be against their Religious
principle [Government action included].

The fact that a Religious institution has decided to allow gays to be part of
their clergy, has been the decision of that institution. If the members of that
congregation do not accept that institution's decision, then they may speak up
and make it known [some have]. There has been a large part of their
congregation that also agrees with that institution's decision. It is also their right
as part of that congregation, to make their wishes known. 

The notion that there has been some sort of conspiracy; some sort of
underhanded diabolical plot to coerce a Religious institution into traveling
down some sort of sacrilegious path, is simply not true, nor substantiated
by any fact, what-so-ever.

I won't go into Religious doctrine on this thread, but what has transpired
within that Religious institution, has not been "forced" by some group
of militant gays. It's happened because some people realize that a person's
sexuality has nothing to do with the quality of person they are. They
are here on this Earth because God put them here. I respect that, more
than I could ever respect those that oppose that concept.

Thanks.

 

97 posted on 11/29/2003 7:32:51 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
Yes, God put us ALL here, not to celebrate our weaknesses, but with His help, to overcome them.
98 posted on 11/29/2003 8:13:56 AM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: DLfromthedesert
Re:
"..God put us ALL here, not to celebrate our weaknesses, but
with His help, to overcome them
...."

Rather than second guess God's purpose, I prefer to accept
all that He's provided and let Him point me in the direction
He wants me to travel.

Apparently, and for whatever reason He might have had....
I find myself traveling in the direction I passionately am.

To be equal in the eyes of man, is blessed; to be equal
in the eyes of law, is essential.

Thanks.

 

99 posted on 11/29/2003 8:32:29 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
You're an asshole without portfolio. Absent an answer you resort to ad hominem. But that's OK, I can play either way.
100 posted on 11/29/2003 8:59:31 AM PST by jwalsh07
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