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GAY MARRIAGE Conservatives should insist on same-sex vows (Barf Alert
New York Times ^ | David Brooks

Posted on 11/26/2003 5:20:26 AM PST by Holly_P

Doing so would strengthen marriage as an institution and the culture of fidelity.

Anybody who has several sexual partners in a year is committing spiritual suicide. He or she is ripping the veil from all that is private and delicate in oneself and pulverizing it in an assembly line of selfish sensations.

But marriage is the opposite. Marriage joins two people in a sacred bond. It demands that they make an exclusive commitment to one another, and thereby takes two discrete individuals and turns them into kin.

Few of us work as hard at it as we should, but marriage makes us better than we deserve to be. Even in the chores of daily life, married couples find themselves, over the years, coming closer together, fusing into one flesh. Married people who remain committed to each other find that they reorganize and deepen each other's lives. They may eventually come to the point when they can say to each other: "Love you? I am you."

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News
KEYWORDS: conservatives; davidbrooks; divorce; gay; homosexualagenda; marriage
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To: scripter
You're correct, there's an endless number of scenarios and combinations to look forward to. I don't really expect an answer to my question, but I would like to know why these supporters limit the definition to two people. Tolerance is tolerance and equality is equality after all.
21 posted on 11/26/2003 6:58:40 AM PST by garv
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To: armadale
Amen.

Amen? Hmm. Read this.

There have been quite a few studies on genetics and homosexuality. All of them have demonstrated there is no gay gene, have been discredited, or the text of the article were shown to be completely unrelated to the title of the article. The pro-homosexual bias can be very obvious at times.

Simon Levay has often been touted as having found the gay gene, yet he found no such evidence:

Simon LeVay, in his study of the hypothalamic differences between the brains of homosexual and heterosexual men, offered the following criticisms of his own research:
"It's important to stress what I didn't find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain.
All the evidence in support of genetics and homosexuality can be similarly summarized. In regards to the APAs decision to delete homosexuality from the diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric Association, Simon Levay further stated:
"Gay activism was clearly the force that propelled the APA to declassify homosexuality."

I quote Simon Levay because his work is often used to support something it never supported. Levay is a gay advocate.

What the evidence does support is the major factor in determining homosexuality is environment. The fact that thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle further supports the scientific studies.

The following is pulled from here:

...The following is just one of the many developmental pathways that can lead to homosexuality, but a common one. In reality, every person's "road" to sexual expression is individual, however many common lengths it may share with those of others.

(1) Our scenario starts with birth. The boy (for example) who one day may go on to struggle with homosexuality is born with certain features that are somewhat more common among homosexuals than in the population at large. Some of these traits might be inherited (genetic), while others might have been caused by the "intrauterine environment" (hormones). What this means is that a youngster without these traits will be somewhat less likely to become homosexual later than someone with them.

What are these traits? If we could identify them precisely, many of them would turn out to be gifts rather than "problems," for example a "sensitive" disposition, a strong creative drive, a keen aesthetic sense. Some of these, such as greater sensitivity, could be related to - or even the same as - physiological traits that also cause trouble, such as a greater-than-average anxiety response to any given stimulus.

No one knows with certainty just what these heritable characteristics are; at present we only have hints. Were we free to study homosexuality properly (uninfluenced by political agendas) we would certainly soon clarify these factors - just as we are doing in less contentious areas. In any case, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the behavior "homosexuality" is itself directly inherited.

There are 11 additional references at the above link which I encourage everyone to read, as it's my opinion the above summarizes the homosexual factors quite well. At this time there are no scientific arguments against the above. Unfortunately we're labeled all kinds of things if we don't just tolerate homosexual behavior, but we're supposed to accept it as valid.

And that's ridiculous. Stop and think about it. Not just tolerate, but accept a behavior that results in severe health hazards. A behavior that can, and should be, changed. The madness must stop. The truth must be told.

22 posted on 11/26/2003 7:01:57 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: garv
but I would like to know why these supporters limit the definition to two people.

Some here don't limit the definition, as long as underage children or animals aren't involved. When you think about it they really can't limit the definition without someone calling them a bigot, so they have to leave it wide open.

23 posted on 11/26/2003 7:07:42 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: Agnes Heep
How much longer until this becomes "marriage joins two creatures in a sacred bond"?

How about "two objects?"

24 posted on 11/26/2003 7:45:45 AM PST by The_Victor
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To: The_Victor
How can homosexuals consummate a true marriage? Can anyone answer? In my Church, no consummation=no marriage.
25 posted on 11/26/2003 9:42:28 AM PST by steve8714
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To: steve8714
The answer you'll get is along these lines: consummation is a religous element and not a requirement for all marriages.
26 posted on 11/26/2003 9:52:52 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: The_Victor; Deep_6
Perhaps gay marriage is not really about pledging a troth for life, but about forced public acceptance.

Public acceptance isn't all - they want much more than that. Public dominance is their goal. Note emerging "hatespeech" laws in other countries, coming soon here if homosexual activists and their bots have their way. We already have state "hate crimes" laws - and Kennedy and other Senators have been trying to make a federal hate crimes law including homosexuals. So if a homosexual is killed, assaulted, or whatever, it is a more heinous crime than if my elderly father with impaired eyesight is assaulted. Disgusting.

Gay activists and their helpers are not interested in partaking of holy matrimony. They want to re-make society in their image. And silence those who disagree with them. They do not want tolerance or diversity of opinion. They want to dominate and suppress. "Gay marriage" is a weapon in their arsenal. They want to dismantle the natural family as the foundation of civilization; anyone who has studied their writings knows that.

People should be asking WHY do they want to dismantle society and remake it?

27 posted on 11/26/2003 10:24:43 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Holly_P
How is fraud, two men or two women claiming to be gay but really not, to obtain the benefits of marriage going to be prevented? (Medical,retirement,social security,etc.)

Anyone can claim to be gay. How do we separate those who are from those who are not?
28 posted on 11/26/2003 11:19:03 AM PST by Calamari
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To: scripter
consummation defines marriage.
29 posted on 11/26/2003 11:37:40 AM PST by steve8714
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To: Calamari
Anyone can claim to be gay. How do we separate those who are from those who are not?

You mean single out the hetero singles so they can be denied the medical, social, retirement.....   Interesting.
30 posted on 11/26/2003 11:39:12 AM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Deep_6
Black's Law Dictionary:

"MARRIAGE. Marriage, as distinguished from the agreement to marry and from the act of becoming married, is the civil status, condition, or relation of one man and one woman united in law for life, for the discharge to each other and the community of the duties legally incumbent on those whose association is founded on the distinction of sex. 1 Bish.Mar. & Div. Sec. 3; Collins v Hoag & Rollins, 121 Neb. 716, 238 N.W. 351, 355; Allen v. Allen, 73 Conn. 54, 46 A. 242, 49 L.R.A. 142."

31 posted on 11/26/2003 11:43:50 AM PST by reagandemocrat (from a Proud Recallian)
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To: reagandemocrat
Civil status, eh?  I see nothing religious in the definition.  So all this sacra'mental' stuff is a bunch of hooey relating to something other than marriage. The religious agenda is subverting marriage!  </derision>
32 posted on 11/26/2003 11:52:03 AM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: gcruse
There you go!
33 posted on 11/26/2003 12:28:54 PM PST by Calamari
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To: Deep_6
There is no legal reason to deny any two people making a lifelong commitment the benefits others making the same commitment receive, simply because they meet a religious description of "marriage".

There is also no morale reason to deny two homosexuals the responsibility concurrent with legal marriage. Why should they be denied the benefits of divorce, spousal support, alimony, community property and all the other restraints imposed on heterosexuals?

34 posted on 11/26/2003 12:36:01 PM PST by R. Scott
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To: gcruse
Something akin to claiming protected (privileged) status because you say so. No way to verify the claim. Next up will be employment discrimination law suits. "my employer fired me because he discriminates against gays".

I claim to be gay, you prove I'm not. Could be difficult.
35 posted on 11/26/2003 12:42:11 PM PST by Calamari
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To: Calamari
That's the danger of entitlements rather than equal protection. Pretty soon, everyone would be claiming queerosity, just for the perks.
36 posted on 11/26/2003 12:47:20 PM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: steve8714
As you and I define it, sure. But those who push the homosexual agenda find themselves redefining a number of things.
37 posted on 11/26/2003 1:14:11 PM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: Calamari
How is fraud, two men or two women claiming to be gay but really not, to obtain the benefits of marriage going to be prevented? (Medical,retirement,social security,etc.)

These and other reasons need to be brought to the attention of everyone.

38 posted on 11/26/2003 1:18:38 PM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: Motherbear
Re:
"...If homosexuals and their liberal friends want to lobby for specific rights like civil union..."

Sorry, but all they're asking for, are the same rights.

39 posted on 11/26/2003 3:36:14 PM PST by Deep_6
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To: R. Scott
Re:
"..There is also no morale reason to deny two homosexuals the responsibility 
concurrent with legal marriage. Why should they be denied the benefits of 
divorce, spousal support, alimony, community property and all the other 
restraints imposed on heterosexuals?
.."

As always, equal means equal. If any two people are permitted the benefit
of a legal "marriage", they not only enjoy the benefits, but also the pitfalls
of that same legal relationship.

And that, is the point. Anything less than legally deeming it a marriage, would
insinuate a "special" privilege. The gay community does not want "special"
privileges, all they want are the same treatment under law, for the same
commitment they make to one another.

 

40 posted on 11/26/2003 3:49:30 PM PST by Deep_6
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