ARTILLERY: Rules of Engagement Protect Iraqi Mortars

StrategyPage.com ^ | November 26, 2003

[Cannoneer No. 4]

November 26, 2003: The armed opposition in Iraq are taking advantage of speed and rules of engagement to defeat America's high tech weapons. Several teams of Iraqis are moving around near coalition bases at night and firing a few mortar shells, then slinking away and hiding their mortar and ammunition. The weapon used is usually a Russian made 82mm mortar. This weapon weighs about 80 pounds, but can be broken down into three pieces (the heaviest weighing 29 pounds, the lightest 22). Each 82mm mortar shell weighs about seven pounds (and contains about 14 ounces of explosives). The mortar has a maximum range of about 8,000 meters. The U.S. has a Firefinder radar which, when it spots an incoming shell, calculates where it came from and transmits the location to a nearby artillery unit, which then fires on where the mortar is (or was). This process takes 3-4 minutes (or less, for experienced troops.) But there are rules of engagement to deal with. You cannot fire your artillery into a populated area. And this is where the Iraqis usually fire their mortar from; some civilians back yard. As a result, Firefinder knows where the Iraqi mortar is, but the American artillery can't fire because of the nearby civilians. However, the location of the mortar is also sent to a nearby infantry unit, which now has troops standing by to rush to the location. But the Iraqis know how this works (some got caught and the word got around.) So the Iraqi teams fire a few shells, then take their mortar apart and move away. This process takes a minute or so. Some Iraqi gunners have fired from uninhabited areas (sometimes because there were no civilian neighborhoods within range) and got blasted. But the Iraqis eventually realized that their best bet was to fire from a civilian area and then run. Fortunately, the Iraqi mortarmen have not been very skillful, and often miss large targets (covering several acres). This cat and mouse game continues, apparently with UAVs and gunships getting involved as well. So while the Iraqi "shoot and run" tactics have been fairly successful, there is still a risk, and a growing one at that, for the midnight mortar operators.

[Darksheare]

That'd be the guy sitting on the trails just behind the wheel.
That's the gunner's position.
They only use the lanyard for the first round, or when firing a RAP round now.
Otherwise there's this itty bitty lever on the firing block, removable, that the gunner pulls. (Slaps more like it.)
The gunner also controls quadrant and deflection using teh two wheels seen in front of him.
My section chief said it was somewhat similar to a tank gunner's controls, but I can't verify that.
The AG merely opens and closes the breech mech now, or flips the safety lever on his side from safe to fire and so forth.
Not at all like the M102 in that respect.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Are you allowed to say where "here" is? It's OK if you're not.

How would we back in the rear figure out how many Freepers are in Iraq?

The Internet is a wonderment.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I just pulled the string on that 3-inch Parrott.

The boy holding the worm staff next to the wheel is a Marine, now.

[Darksheare]

Ah yes, old school artillery.
*chuckle*
The M119 supposedly has a charge 8 available that would need a lanyard to fire, but I've never seen a charge 8 for it.
Supposedly it comes with the RAP round, in a red tubular case.
But that may just be an Army myth, like stress cards.

The only time my unit used the lanyard to fire was the first round, first round high angle, and if we have a hot tube hangfire, misfire, or other similar mishap requiring 24 foot distance or so.

[neverdem]

See Comment# 21 which addresses the issue. The use of a FDC would require commo to a FO for adjusting fire, and commo to the mortar position if the FDC is not co-located with the mortars( or any artillery unit).

The FDC must have at least 6 digit co-ordinates of the target and gun position, the azimuth of the FO to the target, and the gun position must have an aiming stake or equivalent, e,g. the corner of a building, in order to generate the elevation, deflection and charge elements of the fire command.

Alternatively, the FDC could adjust fire if it knows the co-ordinates of the guns and FO as well as azimuth and range from the FO to the target.

This adjustment of indirect fire requires secure commo unless they're willing to accept more risk.

Because of all of those requirements, I'm inclined to think they are just using direct lay.

BTW 4.2, I was 11B long before as well as long after(National Guard) I was 11C.

[neverdem]

I was a 13E in the Army Reserve before I was 11C(Indirect Fire Infantryman).

If you would, I would appreciate being on that list. Thanks

[Darksheare]

Added to list
Anyone else who wants on the list can FReepmail me subject 'FAPL On' and likewise, anyone currently on it who wants off can send me one stating 'FAPL Off'.

List honestly isn't JUST for 13 series MOS types, especially since in my unit we had medics and FDC on the gunline if we needed them.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Outstanding post. You have forgotten more about mortars than I ever knew. Educational site, this Free Republic.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Ya gotta be old to remember Gamma Goats. Didn't they go out of the inventory about the time the last cavalry horse died? ; )

[Prodigal Son]

A 4.2 inch mortar is an instrument of destruction a fellow can fall in love with after a while ;-)

[Retired AF Pilot]

The Rules of Engagement is the road map that the enemy will use to defeat us. They were successful in Vietnam and will succeed here.

I followed the Rules of Engagement during my three wonderful years in Vietnam, and was glad that I was not one of the statistics. Are no rules better? It depends on whose side you are on.

If you are on the receiving side of the mortar and gunfire the ROE are bad. If you are pointing the weapons, the ROE is great because you know what the target will do. The British had some really great rules and we used them to whip their butts in the Revolutionary War.

The sooner we get the people of Iraq to pick up the ball the better for me, then they can decide what the rules of engagement are.

I feel for those who have sons and daughters who will become statistics from our rules of engagement. One of my sons will be there shortly.

[Ispy4u]

I can understand your personal animosity toward ROE, but the ROE we are working under in Iraq are there solely for the protection of noncombatants.

The article already pointed out that our superior technology fire-finder counter-battery radar has reduced the insurgents efforts to mere harrassment fire because they have learned firing too many shots gets them killed.

The Iraqi civilians who's yards they are firing from will cooperate with us because we don't return fire every time. When a neighborhood is not cooperative with us we do return counter-battery fire then we usually don't get the insurgents because they left.

ROE may have lost us Vietnam, but it won't happen in Iraq. The insurgents and their sympathizers are being reduced to small enough numbers for the new Iraqi government to handle fairly quickly.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Bumping this thread.

How would we back in the rear figure out how many Freepers are in Iraq?

Freepmail from those in Iraq. Good thinking. *g*

[StriperSniper]

Explosion rocks Italian embassy

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Vanity Happy Thanksgiving Thread. What time is it over here when most of them are getting online?

[SauronOfMordor]

First of all, many times the Iraqi homeowner has no say in the matter. Someone sets up in their back yard at 0200 and he's asleep. Second, this is the tactic that the Israelis have taken with Palestinian Homocide Bombers - they bulldoze the bombers' family home. Not great for P.R.

After the first round, the homeowners surrounding the site would sure as hell be awake. If the likelihood of counter-battery fire increased with each round, that would be an incentive to hose down the mortar crew with your household AK.

[in the Arena]

My sister, a teacher in S.D. just had a member of that crew who was home on leave speak to her class. I'll have to check with her on the name.

[SICSEMPERTYRANNUS]

I'm not a gun bunny but add me to the list please. Thanks

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Work of 1st AD's artillery tactical ops center aids decisions on when to fire

1AD DIVARTY TOC’s call sign is “Steel Main.”

[I got the rope]

Good post. I agree. It sounds like the jihadists could be scoping out distance and direction by day and lobbing some trash up at night. More than likely they do not have anyone to adjust fire for them because of the commo restrictions.

This war may take awhile, but we ARE winning.