FBI looking into Anti-War Protestors.

Drudge ^

[RaceBannon]

there should have been 3 posted

bomb texas

choke on anoher pretzle

wanted:dead or alive

[wideminded]

I'm an open-minded guy. If you can prove that the Russians put a billion dollars into the antiwar effort during the VietNam era, I'd be very impressed and I'd have to change my whole perspective on that era. My hesitancy in easily changing my opinion is due to the fact that my personal experience was that a great many loyal Americans thought that the war in Vietnam was wrong. And these people weren't led to these feelings by propaganda, but by seeing the events which actually transpired and what they were doing to our country, to VietNam, Cambodia, and Laos. The Russians could have spent $0 on US antiwar propaganda and there still would have been enormous numbers of people protesting against the war.

Here's what I think of Col. Lunev: If what he says is true, it's a big bombshell. But I noticed a few odd things. When I looked up his book on Amazon, the majority of the reviewers were complaining about the lack of content in the book. How could it have a lack of content if he brings out stuff like this? Here's what Lunev said in a congressional hearing:

"It was a responsibility of my former agency. Of course, not mine, because in time of Vietnam war, I was in the regular military service and I had only one secondhand connection with this war when I was invited from regular military SPETSNAZ to special operation forces and with possibility to be sent to Vietnam.

So, I heard this information from my own sources inside GRU, and I was really surprised that it is unknown for American public because for us it was well known."

In other words Lunev has no first hand information on the antiwar funding so we must accept both his word and the word of the people he claims told him this. And if he knows a lot about it, why do all the reviewers complain about a lack of content in his book, why didn't he provide more details? This is a lot weaker than the type of hard information on Soviet spying that has been obtained by research in Soviet archives or by the Venona cables.

So while I find the very short statement of Col Lunev very interesting it's not very convincing and I'd like to see something a lot better. A billion dollars was a lot of money back in the 1960's. If Lunev's story is true, surely there must be some more concrete evidence.

Here's what would be really convincing to me:

1. You back up your previous assertion about the buses, etc., or
2. At least show some specific way in which known payments from the Soviets caused a large protest to occur that would not have happened otherwise, or
3. Show how specific actions of the KGB or GRU led Americans to have a view of the war that was fundamentally incorrect. And by the way, I know we won a lot of military victories there; I don't think that the military situation was the main reason that led people to protest.

The millions of Asians slaughtered by commnunism after YOUR KIND forced the US out of SE Asia curse your naivety.

Apparently you are talking about Cambodia. It's very bad that we did not do anything to prevent this. At the time, no one suggested that an imminent bloodbath in Cambodia was a reason for us to stay in Vietnam. It wasn't MY KIND as you say that forced the US out of Vietnam. It was the collective will of the majority of Americans combined with the fact that the Vietnamese didn't seem to have a strong enough inclination to be divided into two countries. BTW, maybe you can correct me on this but the minimum figure I have heard for Vietnamese casualties inflicted by the US is 2 million, about the same number killed in Cambodia by the Khmer Rouge. I agree that protestors are often naive. But they are not always 100% wrong. The right to protest in enshrined in our constitution. It's very American.

Today, YOUR KIND wants to force us out of Iraq, so that Saddam can once again begin filling the mass graves, torture centers, and human shredders.

I supported our entry into Iraq. I don't think we should leave yet. NO ONE, not even the current protestors, wants Saddam to come back.

[Tijeras_Slim]

The Russians could have spent $0 on US antiwar propaganda and there still would have been enormous numbers of people protesting against the war.

The Soviets always loved self-financing supporters, and sometimes they even made a profit (what would Marx think?), just ask the Spanish Communists or POUM from 1936 (although they're probably all dead).

[Let's Roll]

I think some of them do both. There have been many reports - especially with the trade protestors, which have been the most violent - that they travel overseas to protest. Also, that many of the protestors in the UK last week were really from other European countries.

[Travis McGee]

Look, I did a google search that came up with dozens of citatinos on the first hit. I'd say the ball is now in your court to prove that the antiwar movement was NOT funded by the KGB. Or I can just put those dozens of links here for you.

[wideminded]

Look, I did a google search that came up with dozens of citatinos on the first hit. I'd say the ball is now in your court to prove that the antiwar movement was NOT funded by the KGB. Or I can just put those dozens of links here for you.

Apparently you really can't come up with anything on the buses or any better evidence than the short statement of Col. Lunev. This surprises me because I really thought that you might be able to come up with a "smoking gun" type of evidence. You are the one making the dramatic assertions. Why can't you show where any of the billion dollars went? I should not have to prove a negative, that not even one penny was spent (which I do not claim).

You made a specific assertion about the funding of some items required for large antiwar protests. Did you read this in a book, or on the internet, or hear someone say it in a lecture, or did you just make it up?

The trouble with lots of links is that often a lot of them are of poor quality or they all trace back to one untrustworthy witness, document, or article. But, I'll make you an offer. You don't need to post the links. Just give me your search terms. When I have time, which isn't now or maybe even today, I will carefully go through the links that come up on google from your search terms. (Please try to make it less than 10 pages of links.) If I find any hard evidence that you are right I will admit it to everyone on this thread. If I don't I will state why I don't think anything is there. The time this will take will depend on the number of links.

It seems like major KGB funding of Vietnam-era antiwar protests would have been explored in a book if evidence for this existed. Someone here would then know the title of such a book. Lunev's book came out 5 years ago, so why hasn't anyone followed up on his statement if there is something there?

[Modernman]

I remember when the local constabulary wore badges with numbers to such events. Any more, they are hooded, goggled, helmeted, jacketed... identityless stormtroopers. Not good if we're to have open society.

The protestors have ratcheted up the level of violence since Seattle. There, the cops tried to play nice and be less obtrusive. The protestors trashed the city. Any police force that knows one of these events is coming into their town knows they have to have a show of force to keep the protestors from smashing up the city.

The protestors have no one to blame but themselves for the increased heavy-handedness of the police.

[Modernman]

They have a right to demonstrate as long as they commit no crimes.

Exactly. If these protestors did nothing more than make signs and shout slogans, I would be seriously opposed to the FBI tracking their activities. The government should not be investigating people for exercising their constitutional rights.

The groups involved in these protests, however, may be involved in illegal activites. It's a fine line.

[Syncro]

First thing that should be done is to ban the wearing of hooded masks in protests. I think that's been done already in some U.S. cities.

Yes, Leni that is true, even in San Francisco. It is unlawful to wear a mask in SF except on Halloween, or if you are a homosexual.

But these Terrorist Supporters

Guys

were not cited or made to unmask.

But a half dozen FR people were spirited off into the City Hall when the 5000 terrorist supporters (some wearing masks as you can see) came up the stairs to attack us.

I slipped to the side and took more pictures as shown on this Thread

[onemoreday]

..
..
I wonder what the protestors are "protesting" exactly.

The pro-noun...."pro" in front of "test"(short for "testimony?) implies that they are FOR SOMETHING!

I have never seen a leader (or even a follower) of "these" people on the NEWS

I neither trust

the MEDIA
the GOVERNMENT
nor.....the PEOPLE!

Sitting back, taking it ALL in, trying to see the BIGGER PICTURE!!!......(and noticing that in so doing I feel like quite a minority)

especially that their IDEAS are getting no coverage.....

as an AMERICAN......I lend them my support in that what I see here is simply THE CHRUSHING OF DISSENT....again.

What, is everything so "understood" and "acceptable" concerning Government Economic Policy? I don't think so.

Many threads here point that out.

The extent that AMERICA is being "militarized" far far exceeds the extant of the threat offered, especially in the face of the UN-ANSWERED QUESTIONS.

The "REAL FACE" of AMERICAN POLITICAL/ECONOMIC POWER........hasn't been seen in many-a year. How can one simple "support IT" so blindly?

[glock rocks]

The protestors have no one to blame but themselves for the increased heavy-handedness of the police.

Absolutely agree. The point at which "free speech" means burning cop cars and breaking store fronts is where I agree there should be ordinances against masks and bandanas on the protesters.

By this token, if the agency can be printed on the back of the flack jackets, why can't the badge number be printed on the front. Just as there are rogues in the unwashed's ranks, there might be overzealous in the blue ranks. Now take pictures of everything... not just newsweek and the leftpress. There's a reason there are videocams on cruisers... that blade cuts both ways, and it's not a bad thing.

I don't think it's a great stretch of the imagination to envision the right on the receiving end of the baton sometime in the future.

[Schwaeky]

antiwar demonstrators should read, "socialists and marxists"

synonomous.. the peace movement, by accident or by design, is pro-Communist.

[Schwaeky]

also remember some of you guys getting license plate numbers of cars with "No Blood for Oil" and other such stupid stickers on them in conjunction with expired tags or inspection stickers parked in the rally area and giving those license numbers to the police don't do that to me!! Of course I'm a registered republican bush supporter and the only thing I have is a pro-hemp sticker, but police bust my balls all the time (for having a hot-rodded car w/ no cats and all).. cops always love to pick on my car and me...

[Darksheare]

Yes, I'm fully aware of that, take a look one or two posts down, also by me.
Tom Ridge was governor of PA, and that is what he's best known as in my area.
He ended up as DofHS, and the locals here in cow country NY went, Tom Who?

[Modernman]

I don't think it's a great stretch of the imagination to envision the right on the receiving end of the baton sometime in the future.

Agreed completely. As we saw during the Clinton years, this type of scrutiny can be turned on conservatives (pro-lifers, pro-gun groups, etc.) if the powers-that-be happen to be liberals. The question we should ask ourselves is would we support similar actions by the government if those actions were aimed at groups we agree with?

I have to grit my teeth and say that the anti-war protestors have every right to PEACEABLE assembly and to petition the government. Now, once they cross the line and start engaging in vandalism, arson etc., the law should come down on them with both feet.

[Sockdologer]

Thanks for your story. It's most interesting :)

[Burkeman1]

I would have to agree with you. To actually find these commie lesbians scary is laughable. I imagine the administration loves these idiotic signs and Commie slogans at these "peace" rallies.

The real crime here is that the FBI is wasting time and resources on these marginal kooks. But I guess it is easier to take pictures of idiotic college kids and street corner Tye Dye T-shirt sellers than say- track down Arab illegals in this country.

I am not that concerned about the abuse of the Patriot Act under Bush. It is when A democrat gets into power that I will worry. If the FBI were taking pictures of Freepers at Freep events and doing other sorts of "information gathering" on right wingers- this site would be up in arms- literally.

And just to put things into perspective. This country was a police state during WWI when hundreds of people were thrown in jail for their opinions for years, people were lynched and murdered for their opinions, and people actually denounced others to authorities for casual conversations. We haven't reached that point by any means. But judging by some of the idiotic posts on this thread some of the neo fascists would like that.