Posted on 11/21/2003 3:59:24 PM PST by O6ret
Col. West is the difference between winning and losing.
I won't go into the morality of winning and losing, I will just say that our side is more moral, more humane, more generous than the other side.
I support Col. West.
BTW. For all the Grammarians out there, it is military courtesty to refer to a Lieutenant Cononel as "Colonel". And I earned my stripes in the USMC. So there.
I know soldiers who served in the Americal Division in Vietnam. That unit got a reputation for beating prisoners (earned early, and maintained throughout their time in country), getting their a$$es kicked by the NVA (began to be earned after they settled into beating prisoners), and fragging officers who attempted to cure those unhappy conditions.
Which one is he actually accomplishing?
Still, as propaganda, it was marvelous. Kept the officers from screwing the troops more than necessary.
Within the Americal, it had to do with any officer that tried to enforce minimal standards of discipline, including prisoner interrogations.
Still, as propaganda, it was marvelous. Kept the officers from screwing the troops more than necessary.
Yup. Kept MACV from actually trying to use the Americal for anything important. Westmoreland and Abrams knew that the unit was worthless in any sort of fight with people who could shoot back.
Just tell us you were an Air Force officer, maybe even George Bush' wing commander.
We won't tell anyone, but it will help us understand what you are trying to express.
In my humble opinion, he saved the lives of those under his command.
May I suggest that that is a win?
Really, Poohbah, would you rather have West as a C.O., or someone appointed by DACOWITS? :)
Must not have done anything serious, eh?!
Come on guys ~ you two ~ just tell us you were high ranking officers in the Air Force and all is forgiven!
Yisivish!
All kidding aside, I could dismiss all your arguments as 'ysivish' as easily as you tried to dismiss me with 'hyperbole'.
Do you have any links to back up your dis of me?
That hasn't been established as fact. More to the point, it cannot be established as fact. Perhaps there was no real plot as described, and the "confession" from the prisoner amounted to telling West what the prisoner thought West wanted to hear. There is an extremely high chance of that happening when these techniques are used. That's why people who actually know how to interrogate prisoners and get factual information from those prisoners do not use these methods.
May I suggest that that is a win?
You may. However, your suggestion may or may not be congruent with reality.
Really, Poohbah, would you rather have West as a C.O., or someone appointed by DACOWITS?
I'd rather have one who can, first of all, command himself, especially if he's going to command me. Second, I would prefer that he be competent. The spin, as presented by West and his attorney, only makes sense if West is tactically incompetent.
You speak as if he's Captain America taking on the enemy singlehandedly for all 120,000 currently in theater. If that isn't hyperbole you tell me what is.
There are always exceptions.
Must not have done anything serious, eh?!
Individual heroism is one thing. Actually accomplishing anything useful as a unit is something else.
Come on guys ~ you two ~ just tell us you were high ranking officers in the Air Force and all is forgiven!
I served in the Marines, boy.
You got me on that one.
It does not change the fact that he saved lives (on both sides).
And even if his actions ended in death on the enemy side, SO WHAT?
He deserves honor and a medal, and anyone who says otherwise is invited to go to hell.
for the last 8 years are only appointing people that agree with United Nations International, and that the Truth
And so did I.
I got your back.
But it cannot be proven that he factually saved any lives. As Poohbah has stated, the "planned attack" may have just been what the detainee thought LTC West wanted to hear.
And even if his actions ended in death on the enemy side, SO WHAT?
The fact is we have a shiite-load of yung-dum-full-o-### hard chargers over there who would take LTC West's actions as a ticket to do more of the same plus one for effect. That leads down a road we don't want to go.
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