Archaeological Find May Lead To Rewriting Of History

Dawn ^ | 11-21-2003 | Robin McKie

[Mackey]

You just have to let some things go for the sake of today and tomorrow.

Quite so. No reason why we can't just plow up say, the Gettysburg Battlefield, and grow potatoes there, right? After all, the world requires its french fries.

Much depends on the value of the things you're letting go, I'd say.

[null and void]

Would anyone know the origin of this? Assume it is military but would it be in regard to the French Revolution, WWI or WWII or????

USN WWI, according to the Wentworth and Flexner Dictionary of American Slang

[Congressman Billybob]

England does not have the explicit prohibition from our Constitution that private property may not be taken "without just compensation." However, the sense of fairness in American law is borrowed from English law.

I thoroughly agree that the farmers should not be prevented from using their own land, without just compensation. However, this site seems to be so impressive, and so capable of expanding our knowledge of our past, that the government should pony up, pay the farmers, and then excavate this site with all possible skill.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "Double Crossing at the Rio Grande," discussion thread. IF YOU WANT A FREEPER IN CONGRESS, CLICK HERE.

[myself6]

It seems you have either missed my point or have chose to ignore it.

I could care less what the OWNERS of the property are doing with their property. It matters very little if they are growing potatoes, tomatoes or wheat or they are building a house, a barn or an adult bookstore. What matters is that it is THIER property and it should NOT be taken or used AGAINST the owners will by anyone.

Value can only be determined by someone who owns a "thing" or wishes to own a "thing". You can try and place a value on something you do NOT own but it will not get you very far, nor should it. Believe it or not, there are people who really put no value on the battlefield you mentioned. To them it is nothing more than good farmland or a nice place to put a home and raise a family. Both you and that person has placed a value on that land according to your desires and whomever values that land more can own it. How would you like it if you owned this battlefield and wished to keep it a museum of the civil war but someone or a group of people or a government came along and forcefully took it from you because they desired to do something else with it?

[uglybiker]

...the nearby McCain French fries factory.

Just look for me on the package!

[myself6]

I understand your point and am tempted to agree with it because I too desire to see what is there.

BUT...


I do not believe that my desires or the desires of a majority outweigh those of the PROPERTY OWNER.

YES... They should make this owner an offer BUT, if the owner refuses... THAT should be THAT, because the OWNER has obviously decided that his desires have more value to him.

What if you thought it noble to save the very rare species of flea that existed on his property? We could learn allot from this flea. We don’t want to reduce the population of this flea or its habitat. Would you agree to taking his land against his will then?


Compensation ALONE is not moral justification. ONLY a willing trade of value can be moral.

[PeterPrinciple]

An interesting note is that the author has given us a subtle choice that french fries excludes history. This site has remained so for how many centuries?? Will growing french fries (yes, I know) really damage the history there or does the author have an agenda? I suspect that this ground has been farmed once or twice since then. Get the facts at any cost.

As I get older a lot of sayings I heard as a kid come to the surface. One of them is:"It doesn't matter where you've been, it's where you are going that counts."

Right now, I think limited resources ought to be placed on where we are going.

At this point with limited information and my best logical assumptions, I still vote for the fries(political correctness works, I will now call them fries in order not to offend anyone). But then my vote doesn't matter much as it is in England.

[PeterPrinciple]

"...that the government should pony up, pay the farmers, and then excavate this site with all possible skill. "



Congressman Billybob,

I'm ashamed of you, how quickly we fall into the idea of government solving all our problems with other peoples money. At least ask a liberal foundation first or maybe a rich conservative.

Peter

[blam]

A private land seizure that went bad. Click here

The tree was recently dated by dendrochronologists (tree ring experts) to a little over 100 years old.

[JerseyHighlander]

I would like to be added to the GGG pinglist farmfriend. Catch most, but not all of the pinged threads.

This site, with such a long length of continuous habitation, could lend further insight into population density and Atlantic Jetstream realtionships in the Isles. Some climatologists have raised the specter of a new cooling trend in the Isles, which would decimate the population in centuries previous due to shorter and less predictable growing seasons. Of course, the Brits would just buy some US grain now. And take more holidays to Majorca.

[farmfriend]

Consider yourself added. If you ever change your mind, just let me know.

[Congressman Billybob]

Good Lord. There are legitimate functions for government.

Several years ago, two lead-lined caskets were dug up and examined archeologically in St. Mary's County in southern Maryland. The people buried were tentatively identified as members of the Calvert family -- creators of the Colony of Maryland. It is not a "conservative" position that basic research like that should not be done by government. That is a "foolish" position.

If foundations, universities, whatever get involved in such research, more's the better. But the idea that such an opportunity as in England should be lost for want of action is historically insane.

I suggest you reconsider your reaction to this story.

John / Billybob

[Mackey]

Oh, I see your point...I just indulged myself in a minor rant. Archaeological finds such as this one are rare, and there are so many missing pieces of history to fill in. The thought that a significant portion of this site could be destroyed forever, simply for something so ordinary as a crop of potatoes, set my teeth on edge.

[PeterPrinciple]

"Good Lord. There are legitimate functions for government. "


Yes, a good discussion of what those legitimate funtions are would be invigorating.

Much of this stuff was done and financed through non governmental entities in our own US history. Universities used to be private. Hospitals used to be private and local. Welfare used to be private and local.

UNLIKE YOU, I DO NOT SEE GOVERNMENT AS THE SOLUTION TO EVERY SITUATION!!!!!!!!!!

How much of your personal money would you or did you invest in the the lead lined caskets? Is it of value with other peoples money and not your own? If there is a local historical society and they want to do it,great. Yes they used to exist and be very common until someone decided that government should do it with other peoples money. And they used to make good decisions on what was important historicalLY because money was limited. They had to prioritize!!!!!!

I suggest you rethink your position. I am not against history but think it is a lazy man who thinks government is the solution to situations such as this.

If this is important to you then send your own money to this noble cause. I will respect you for it and by your example, I might even contribute to it.

[Congressman Billybob]

To paraphrase your comment to me: UNLIKE YOU, I DO NOT GROSSLY EXAGGERATE OTHER PEOPLE'S ARGUMENTS IN ORDER TO ATTACK A STRAW MAN IN MY POSTS ON FR.

Give it a rest.

John / Billybob

[carpio]

BTTT