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The problem with what you wrote is that it does not work that way. No person is good. None. The Bible states it.

I'm not arguing that a man can get to heaven by good works or good character. I'm saying that a man may have God's grace in his heart and mind, even if he is not speaking about it in the way of a particular church or a particular reading of the Bible. I believe God is real, and one's actual realtionship with Him is the important thing, not the words one chooses.

Of course I chose familyofman as an example to make a point. I don't know the gentleman. But I do see he is using his (in my view) God-given intellect, and that to me is a good and righteous thing to do. I don't believe that making an intellectual mistake will result in eternal damnation. That view is one reading of the Bible, one I do not share.

As an extreme example, say there is one man who murders throughout his life, steals, even worships Satan. On his death bed, out of fear, he thinks in his mind "I accept Jesus as my lord and savior". Another man lives his life filled with the love of God in his heart and and the appreciation of God's creation in his mind. He gives all his time to feeding the poor and helping the sick. He is an atheist who has not been convinced intellectually of the divinity of Christ. I think to argue that the first man will dwell eternally in paradise and that second man will be eternally tortured sells God short and must be a misinterpretation of the scripture.

Religious discussions rarely change anyone's opinions, but I thank you for your comments.

It is hard to have a relationship with a loving God when you put lies in His mouth, reject the letters He has sent you, and use His name when adressing and worshiping His most deranged enemy.

My dad would not be happy if I started calling Charles Manson "Pops", doing whatever old Charlie told me to, telling my siblings that dad is a fake and a liar, and blowing them up when they disagree with me. I think I would run out of grace real quick. My relationship in my dad's name would be with an imposter and I would have become filled with evil. There is no saving relationship there.

The grace comes from having a relationship with the correct person, not just hoping that you have picked the right one, not trusting that you have, but actually picking and trusting and developing a relationship with HIM.

On the other hand if I am somehow mistakenly thinking that my dad's name is Charles Manson, and I call him by that name, and I disagree that Charles Manson has done anything wrong because I know my father that he is not that type of person, I would have the wrong name, but I would see the right person and see his true character for myself. I would have a good relationship with the right person inspite of what everyone else thinks of that name.

I can have a relationship with the Creator and Redeemer thanks to His grace and mercy no matter what lies anyone says about Him or what name others call Him by. Without the relationship with the real Person there is no grace no matter what earthly good I may do. All my reghteousness, all my good works are as useless as filthy rags without the relationship. He has given His word to settle all honest questions, and to rile up everyone else. Many will say in the end that they have done great and mighty works in His name, but without the relationship, there will be no mercy.

It is all about what we do with His Son.