libertarians Fight Patriot Act

Newsday ^ | November 18, 2003 | Tom Brune

[jmc813]

In your willingness to overlook this extension of power by the feds, you neglect to consider the absolute antipathy that the government has (and so many Americans have) for our 2nd Amendment rights.

Very few of the FR PATRIOT Act cheerleaders believe in a literal view of the 2nd Amendment.

[jmc813]

So here's a counter-proposal: let's undo the entirety of the anti-Second Amendment laws and then we'll actually have some teeth to let the politicians know that We The People won't tolerate further abrogation of our rights.

Amen! Unfortunately, such a proposal scares the heck out of the safety over freedom crowd.

[jmc813]

Do you agree with the sentiments in post #32?

[gooleyman]

Yes, the "Patriot Act" does have sunset clauses...just like those affecting the "Assault Riffle" ban. However, sunset clauses are just an easy way out of the hot box for the politicians that allowed them to go forth in the first place.

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Isn't it better to have the sunset clauses than to NOT have them. My beef above was that there is no excessive outrage about the laws passed in the last 60 years by DemocRATS WITHOUT sunset clauses. At least these have a nat's hair chance of withering on the vine.

I don't know what the vote count was on the Patriot Act, but I would be willing to bet that it was almost unanimous. Or more unanimous than anything usually is. It only takes 60 votes to override a veto. I don't think Bush ever even thought about vetoing it, but what if he did. Not only would the news media have ripped him 2 new a$$holes, it would have been overridden an hour after his veto, and we would have been stuck with it anyway. He would have given the DemocRATS and the media an issue just like his father gave them with his "read my lips" debacle. Again, Bush never hinted (at least to me...hehe) that he even thought of vetoing it. His best bet was what he did. Accept it and implement with agression the parts he agrees with and show restraint on what he didn't like. That's precisely what he and Ashcroft have done IMHO. We are lucky (blessed) to have honest (again IMHO) guys to implement the Patriot Act. Can you imagine how many more FBI files the Clintoons would have immediately ordered when it passed. They would have arrested every political enemy they had including you and me. FR would surely have been history.

[Badray]

"Thanks for the breath of fresh air, Badray."

Fred, you and I know that it's about being always vigilant. Any law can be misused. This cynically name PATRIOT Act just has more possibilities.

[Badray]

PC, I agree with a lot of what you have posted on a many threads, but I do find some differences here. I am not saying that the USA PATRIOT Act is benign.

The infringements in the AWB are obvious just by virtue of the fact that the law is there in violation of "shall not be infringed".

USA PATRIOT Act is not so clear and that in itself makes it problematic. Have you tried to read it? Unless you have the entire US Code at your fingertips, it's damned near impossible. Who knows what is really in there.

The part of my last post that you copied and replied to was intended to point out the increased dangers of the PATRIOT ACT because they (and so many of WE THE PEOPLE) no longer respect the 2nd Amendment. When we are disarmed in the name of safety, how do we fight back when the government advances against our rights?

[Badray]

" When you get down to it, a government that's disarmed the people only honors the people's rights at its own pleasure.

...But when the populace is armed, the government moves against their liberties strictly at its own peril.

That's better. We're agreeing again.

[Protagoras]

What has the Patriot act done to affect your freedom?Had any jackbooted thugs knocking at your door?

That is a pathetic comment.

They never took the Catholics away when they took the Jews.

[Liberal Classic]

Some day Hillary or Chelsea is going to be president and we'll be sorry we passed that darn thing.

[Protagoras]

You're right, better to be in the majority. That way you can do the Democrats' job for them.

[Protagoras]

You are saying that libertarians haven't done their part on the second amendent issues? If so, you must live in a bubble.

[Protagoras]

So you don't know about "sneak and peek" and "know your customer" rules? I guess not, since you didn't read it. But you have a good plan, they can do whatever they want as long as you haven't read the whole code it's ok. Pitiful.

[CWOJackson]

Not that long ago there was a similarly titled thread about "librarians" that I mistook for "libertarians". I thought that thread had somehow gained new life. I see this thread is about the lesser of the two groups.

[inkling]

Hating Republicans doesn't make you a conservative, either.

[Badray]

"Very few of the FR PATRIOT Act cheerleaders believe in a literal view of the 2nd Amendment."

Well, we may be outnumbered, but I don't think that we are outgunned.

[jmc813]

Good point.

[Protagoras]

We are at war.There is an enemy who wants to destroy us.

No war was declared. And the people who are trying to destroy us are many and some are domestic.

[StoneColdGOP]

Goof for the libertarians. Someone ought to have enough guts to fight the "Patriot" Act.

[Protagoras]

So if they are so few, why do you bother with them at all?

These people don't matter. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Protagoras]

cinFLA? Is that you? LOL

Paraniod delusions abound among those obsessing about individuals.

Did the Taliban pay you to say these things?