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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
From your "Ideacenter" link: From the beginning of the fossil record, transitional forms are more or less not found.

Here's another little point. You advertized that web page to me by saying, "A more thorough analysis of evo's supposed transitionals can be found here." That was supposed to be in answer to my posting or linking references to hundreds of transitionals. ("Hundreds?" I hear someone asking. Yes. Most of them are in a single link, The Transitional Vertebrate Fossils.) So I cite a few hundred. You refute with a web page that says there aren't any. Not very impressive.

They then dive into a whole lot of wishing away. I'm just going to hit the high low points.

The above is presented as the earliest certainly identifiable bat fossil so-far known. We are to marvel that it is "A bat! Just a bat!"

Well, no. It still has its tree insectivore tail. No bat alive today has such a thing. The UCMP site that hosts the image also mentions that there are older tooth fossils that show a progression from insectivore teeth to bat teeth, but the bodies are not preserved. So, maybe the teeth evolved gradually but God zapped the rest of the body into being suddenly one day? On this rock of Gap Gaming will creationism prove Genesis!

If the material in the whale section was true when written (it is undated except for 2001 copyright), then it is very out of date and should be removed or seriously overhauled. Since their source is AiG, which makes a policy of leaving outdated claims up on their web site, I suspect the deception is deliberate.

What they say about Pakicetus:

The current truth about Pakicetus (since fall of 2000, at least three years ago):

Pakicetus on the left, Ichthyolestes on the right. There are other Pakicetid specimens, but those are first and so-far only with post-cranial bones. The several earlier finds were only skull parts.

Their treatement of Ambulocetus is just as bad. They quote the execrable scholarship of AiG and Don Batten.

"To establish hind leg function it is necessary to have the pelvic girdle to demonstrate that the leg bones ... belong to the rest of the skeleton and to determine muscle attachments. The pelvic girdle is missing."16
Ambulocetus has had a pelvis since sometime in 1998. This is lying for the Lord, big time.

I won't sludge in detail through the rest of it. How many times, after all, do I have to catch someone? However, feel free to pick anything specific if you think it's a real killer. Make sure it's your best shot.

491 posted on 11/22/2003 12:46:53 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
I do hope you are archiving all of this. It's quite a library of rebuttals. And as we've observed, you need to present the stuff in every thread. Often to the same people.
492 posted on 11/22/2003 1:33:53 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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